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Discussion: My public apology to JF
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
My public apology to JF
Oct 27 2010, 9:46 PM EDT
I was reading on SyFy.com about James Cameron saying that there will be an Avatar 2 and 3, and one of the readers there (Jay) made a comment and several people commented on this and I replied. You can view what was written here:http://blastr.com/2010/10/james-cameron-is-locked-a.php This led me some insights that I DO care to share with you...as you know, I'm one of the more vocal ranters about what I feel JF did with TSCC. However, after reading what Jay wrote about James Cameron's approach to Avatar - and my realizations of what he did with T1, T2, and Aliens, - I also came to the conclusion that I may have judged JF overly harshly as his "style" doesn't mesh with me tastes: and certainly not what I think Terminator could, should, or would be about. This level of expectation I have come to realize is based out of jam Cameron's direct full on non stop action style for these three movies, where the plot unfolded WITH the action. Not everyone produces entertainment this way. Jim C has made a successful career at doing certain action films this way, and it is certainly some of the major cornerstones of his career. Even then, there are ranters about the "lack of story" of Avatar, even when it is the most successful movie of all time, and and has a wide and wvid fan base. You just can't please everyone! Well, in JF's case, he didn't please me (you can visit the rant pages I've met via my profile to cover why) but this does not mean that I didn't enjoy TSCC or that I am not one of the biggest fans OF the show... JF's "peep-a-boo" stlye doesn't sit well wtih me in particular, as I have had decades of what the T franchise is at it's best, even with T3 and T4, which I must admit weren't as "great" as the first two but I enjoyed nonetheless. cont. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
1. RE: My public apology to JF
Oct 27 2010, 10:06 PM EDT
Jay explains what some producers do and I finally "get" it.Up to now, I thought it was so simple to follow what Jim C. did and also be successful - since it seems to me that what he did with Terminator IS simple. But that is not the case. Others have a different approach. he himself cannot be tagged with just one "style." So, after all this time ranting, I apologize to JF. Publicly. I do this based on the premise (that I can be honest and sincere about) that JF had a style different than the best of the Termiator franchise, and chose to steer clear of most of what I - me - wanted, loved, or expected - from Terminator, and most certainly of the Post T2 Sarah Conner period. This was what I - me - expected, and I have to own up to that. Someone else would most certainly have a different vision, and, if you're the one in charge, a different stlye and approach. I will let it go at that, to not beat this into the ground. I also want to move on and just get back to the original thrill I felt every time the show came on: couldn't wait for the next ep to air, and set aside even romance with my gf, to not bump heads with it. Every ep that aired was like an event that could not be missed...and sometimes that meant driving like a madman to be sure I was there to see the opening scenes! Anyway, as an active member of this group, I thought ya'll should know. I am certain to be flamed but what the hell: in many of your opinions I deserve it - which is your right as well. Do you find this valuable? |
MetalShifter |
2. RE: My public apology to JF
Oct 28 2010, 2:37 AM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 29 2010, 1:55 AM EDT
http://blastr.com/2010/10/james-cameron-is-locked-a.php@JAY and everyone else, who is interested: JAY used easy words to describe such a complex thing like "What makes you feel thrilled, while watching a movie an what makes you just nearly fall asleep". Easy words that make his point of view easy to understand easy to copy and easy to agree with. For simple minds everything can be so easy and then they run against a wall just because they believe that there isn’t such a thing like a wall ... ;-) If it were that easy, we could all agree on one point, lean back watching a 500 million dollar BS for 2.5 hours and feel happily ever after ... Don’t make me laugh! ;-) The story of Avatar is weak NOT because it should not leave any open points or questions to the audience, BUT because it has been there a hundred times in the same or a slightly different form. James Cameron said it himself: "He wanted to make this movie because it is now technically possible" It seemed to be impossible to get a good story writer with a budget of just 500 million dollars. Oh ... yes ... he needed everything for the CGI effects, because that is the only thing that makes a movie interesting. NOT the story line, NOT the cut, NOT the characters ... just the CGI effects. According to JAY this is true, because it was just a different way to approach a story that has been told a hundred times. Yes JAY, it is a different approach to blow 500 million dollar in the wind to make people say "WOW" after leaving the cinema like saying "WOW, I had no time to think about the plot, which doesn’t matter, because cannot even think about a plot at all, but it was so, so, so 3 dimensional" *LMFAO* JAY, you made day! ;-))) cont ... 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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MetalShifter |
3. RE: My public apology to JF
Oct 28 2010, 2:38 AM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 29 2010, 1:57 AM EDT
... contIt’s good to know that people like you exist, because it’s good to know that you don’t need a good idea, some creativity or something like brains at all to be successful, NO! If there is just enough money, success is just a logical consequence ... And if someone dares to criticize me now, be prepared for my answer that makes every critics blow away: "Hey Guys, you just don’t understand! I have just a different approach to things" ;-))) -MS ^^^ My answer to JAY. I would have posted it to the news of Avatar, but it didn't work! Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
4. RE: My public apology to JF
Oct 28 2010, 9:25 PM EDT
"It’s good to know that people like you exist, because it’s good to know that you don’t need a good idea, some creativity or something like brains at all to be successful, NO! If there is just enough money, success is just a logical consequence ...Uh, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, or what point you are trying to make... Sorry for being so dense. I'm recently recovering from trying to give JF more credit than I ever have before. Life is hard... Do you find this valuable? |
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MetalShifter |
5. RE: My public apology to JF
Oct 29 2010, 1:54 AM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 29 2010, 3:20 AM EDT
"Uh, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, or what point you are trying to make...Sorry Coach! I forgot to write "continue" because it is also the answer to JAY! -MS Do you find this valuable? |
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MetalShifter |
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Dr._Allison_Cameron |
7. RE: My public apology to JF
Oct 29 2010, 5:59 PM EDT
"... contFirst of all, this thread has been derailed from Chris' original public apology to now a discussion about Avatar. While I don't want to continue the derail, I will just say my piece and leave it at that. To MetalShifter, you miss the very point that you are making. James Cameron did not want a good story for Avatar. He wanted an old worn out story like Pocahantas, and that's what he got. His goal was to feature the CGI + 3D. He wanted to make Avatar a blockbuster without a good story, just to prove the importance of the technology. And he succeeded, BIG time. I understand that you may not have liked it because you wanted a better story, but you are clearly in the minority. From Cameron's point of view, God forbid that Avatar would have had a good story and people said they liked it because of the story. Much better for him if people said Avatar had a lousy story but they liked it because of the CGi + 3D. That's his success. Cameron has been a good film maker. Mentioned above were T1, T2, and Aliens. All three were simple concepts, basically Frankenstein run-downs, where a brave damsel-in-distress is chased by some unspeakable monster but she wins in the end. That these were good and memorable movies just shows how good Cameron is at this kind of stuff. We enjoyed the how, not so much the why. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
t5000 |
8. RE: My public apology to JF
Oct 29 2010, 6:55 PM EDT
actually without the story, you dont have the effects ? LOLthe story borrowed from past stories, but had originality too, and it was not a bad story. It had all the elements a good movie/story needs to have, romance, action, a hero, a villian, a crisis etc. compared to the storys in other movie out in last 2 years, it was one of the better storys. and the whole avatar thing was totally original for a movie, pandora with humans as the unwelcome aliens, was similar to other things, but was still original. and then a good cast. I am not a big fan of the movie, but I thought it was pretty good, and I never saw the 3d version which is how it was intended to be seen. now about apologizing to JF, are you apologizing to people here or are you just apologizing to JF? JF doesnt not visit this site so never heard your rants, and will not hear your apology. LOL I have criticized JF too, but at same time admit he did some good things too. one was making the show fun to talk and wonder about. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
9. RE: My public apology to JF
Oct 30 2010, 1:29 AM EDT
"actually without the story, you dont have the effects ? LOL@Dr.: Wonderful analysys! @t5000: Actually, you don't know that JF doesn't come here...remember, this IS his greatest claim to fame. Anyone in the entertainment industry that may feel as I do might blast him for his handling of TSCC as a Terminator brand, but this is one corner of the media world that largely supports him. My apology is to you guys. My team. Yeah, I acknowledge that JF is the head of this team; never denied that from the start. Only his own admissions created and increasingly uneasy feeling in me, and I came to view him as sort of a modern day Nero - playing the fiddle while burning down the very Rome that he was tasked to oversee. However, I made this thread bc I don't think I gave enough credit to his RIGHT to not follow what I have always viewed as a very simple and clear path. However this guy Jay made me see that This may be a gift of Jim C.'s that others can't, won't or don't tap into. Maybe that is why he has had such stellar success with such simple themes (thanks again Dr. for 'splaining). Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
10. RE: My public apology to JF
Oct 30 2010, 1:30 AM EDT
cont.JF chose to not portray his vision of T is simple means. He actually seems to have a distinct disdain for that. So by moving away from that, he moved away from the core of what I felt TSCC should have been about. Which is why I ranted about it so much. I - me - would have thought that one in JF's position would follow the lead of what was successful before him knowing that there are not only millions of dollars on a table set for you, but by doing so would make you a star producer like JJ, Josh, McG and a few others making a killing in the action/sci fi space. JF seemed to want to "make it" on his own terms. So he got away from the Jim C. roots (and that which was the best of Terminator ever) and the others in his class. These are what I still percieve "wrong moves." I do not think he managed his approach to the subject matter or the PR or the production of the show very well. That doesn't change for me. cont. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
11. RE: My public apology to JF
Oct 30 2010, 1:31 AM EDT
What changes is that I kinda "get" why he might have went a different way than what was expected. I wouldn't have done that, but I am different than JF. And now I see that he is actually different than James Cameron, which was not only the standard I was holding him up to, but was very probably what motivated him to move so far off afield, when it was clearly getting away from most of what you make you and the show a success, and was - in the fairness of restrospect which no one is oradained to be blessed with in advance) just asking for trouble. That was being kind. Actually, it became much of a disaster!So, to bring closure for myself, so that I tone done my obsession on this subject, I chose to own up to the part I play in this: that I expected JF to "be smart" and do a "best of" James Cameron's Terminator. To be fair to both you and me, this is largely bc Linda Hamilton's Sarah Conner is my second fav hero behind Bruce Lee. So JF's handling of this character and the show surrounding her I took rather personal once I got beyond the WTF stage...even tho I liked the show (and still do). If my passion for it wasn't great, I wouldn't still be here. ditto for all you guys! What I expected was a sci fi action thriller, bc that was what Terminator was for 25 years. I expected to learn more about Sarah and John before JDAY and the Future War as their lives - and the action in it - unfolded. These were very basic assumptions for me. It was also an assumption that anyone involved with Terminor MUST be an avid fan and thus revere the best of it and come at it from that perspective. cont. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
12. RE: My public apology to JF
Oct 30 2010, 1:31 AM EDT
But that was my HOPE, and my apology is bc I don't have the right to make someone else live up to a standard that they didn't agree to, I didn't articulate before hand, and I could have not ranted about and merely stopped watching if I didn't like what I saw or didn't agree with. But I didn't. I stayed, and I guess my ranting was my was of "fixing" things - or at least putting it on record how to do T "right" IMO.So I prolly pissed a lot of fans here off. Most were not there when Terminator started 25 years ago, or saw the global cultural impact it made not once, not twice but three times (the third got California a robot for Governor - that's pretty significant when you think about it: California is the 7th largest economy in the world). But I've had a lot of supporters too, even tho most didn't agree with everything I said. cool. But the one common thread was I caused them to think about things a little differently, or sparked some new idea in them. That's cool too, bc that was the very thing that first drew me to this wiki was the exchange of ideas of the TSCC fans which I myself found invigorating. So I am glad I had a hand in returning that favor. I apologize to you guys for coming down on our showrunner so harshly, and not letting up until I myself was feeling like the whole thing was run in the ground. that was going overboard. But I do wish he'd let us in on what happened, AND what - if anything - was in store for TSCC. I still feel there was malicious intent to derail the T mythos and throw his own loyal fans under the bus; however, in the future I will try to curtail ranting about it quite as much. Do you find this valuable? |
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t5000 |
13. RE: My public apology to JF
Nov 7 2010, 2:53 AM EST
"cont.well my take on this is that JF , like alot of writers/directors, have big ego's and want to do even a remake or reboot in their own style and vision, so as to not copy any more from original than is necessary. the less they take or use from the original then the more they feel that they are talented and original themselves. it is similar to bands who only want to do their own music, not something written by anyone else. they let their egos control them, which makes them forget that the real goal is not to pamper their ego, but to make something entertaining, but more importantly "successful" !! key word here is success. Tscc was not a success, although entertaining to some [ us ] it failed to grab the Nielsen audience which is required to be a success on tv. If JF had done a movie or miniseries it still would not have been a success, because ,he, in his own version omitted key things which the mass audience would require. Do you find this valuable? |
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tscchope |
14. RE: My public apology to JF
Nov 9 2010, 1:59 PM EST
We know what James Cameron thinks about what has happened to his franchise. He doesn't like it.JF couldn't get John Connor's age right. He decided to make Sarah Connor react to events. He failed to realise that Sarah and John have the strongest bonds of loyalty, he made them dysfunctional. He purposefully choose to write for a minority of fans rasther than appeal to the broad Terminator fan base.He ran the show into the ground and he was allowed to do so long after it became apparent that he was so doing. It was apparant well before the three dots trilogy. JF has never apologized for the wreck he made of this show . Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
15. RE: My public apology to JF
Nov 9 2010, 5:41 PM EST
I came across this on a Syfi article on the new TV show The Event. Here's what the showrunner had to say about it... (http://blastr.com/2010/11/6-reasons-tonights-episode-of-the-event-is-worth-watching.php)The Event's future is not set. Katz promises the writers know where The Event is headed, but that doesn't mean there won't be surprises, even for the writers, ahead. "We have a larger roadmap. We know where we want to end. We have a couple of benchmarks that we want to hit along the way. But you know ... as we do episodes, we make sure we leave room for us to discover the story on its own and evolve what we discover about the stories and about the actors," said Katz. I made so comments (obviously - you KNOW I couldn't resist!) but really it leads me back to what first rang alarm bells about JF...that he said on his video blog that he had no ENDING for the show's first season, which, in my mind everyone already KNEW the ending: Sarah helps John to survive long enough to save humanity after the machine's try to wipe us out. Seems simple enough to me. cont. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
16. RE: My public apology to JF
Nov 9 2010, 5:43 PM EST
That JF never really led one to believe he had an overall long term plan - even if things get changed along the way - was one of the fundamental things I expected with this series. The other was that it'd be about Sarah's life after T2 helping John to survive JDay and live long enough in the Future War to fulfill his destiny...(so this has always been a war story of very EPIC - as in GLOBAL in scale).That JF took the story down to a myopic scale - hold up in a public high school and in the suburbs of LA - just was faaaaaar off base for me. That Sarah and John were at odds with one another was like the writers didn't view T2! And that it had very little to do with what Sarah and John seemed to be about in the movies threw me (and a lot of other people, apparently) as well. So my apology here is for expecting that JF really SHOULD have followed what I thought was best for the franchise on TV. But then, all I've done is follow the brand faithfully for 25 years and invest in it intellectually (my not so guilty pleasure - as it for me deals with lessons we should learn about war and the idiocy of those that create WMD's and the affect they have on ALL of humanity) - so what do I know. TNT has been able to prove on several occasions that my analysis is faulty... cont Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
17. RE: My public apology to JF
Nov 9 2010, 5:45 PM EST
So I suspect that I am not worthy of having an opinion. My voice doesn't matter, but the people that spend millions to BRING us this entertainment does. Only they are expecting to get their investment back, in the form of viewship, audience and ticket and advertiser sales...but no one seemed to game plan out how that would work with T as a TV show. Too bad.I guess we all can look back with 20/20 hindsight vision as say what we would have done, but we were not in charge. JF was. I will take the high road with the rest of you here and spout the "party line" that he (obviously) tried to do his best. Yet I have been critical of him because I too love the franchise, and in that fandom I cast JF in both Jim Cameron's shadow AND in Mike Moore's of BSG who I was watching faithfully, and respected the "Bible" he created which gave the show a life of it's own, and most everyone invovled participated, contributed, and enjoyed it. This was my expectancy, and it really has no place with what JF does or did. It is unfair of me to have him do those things which he is not contracted with me or any fan to do. His deal was with those that ran the franchise, the studio and the network. and let's not forget they had a hand in it too! Like I said before: no one is talking about this that might know (maybe not even they have the whole story), and we certainly may never know. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
18. RE: My public apology to JF
Nov 9 2010, 5:49 PM EST
Off Topic: On the lighter side, Syfy had an cute article on anti-motivational posters at http://blastr.com/2010/11/19-demotivating-but-funny-sci-fi-motivational-posters.phpAt the bottom is a link to a site where you can make your own custom posters. I think a lot of the creative fans here could have a field day with this. If any of you make something cool pls let me know (if you send me a pm it'll give me an email notice). Do you find this valuable? |
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t5000 |
19. RE: My public apology to JF
Nov 10 2010, 1:49 AM EST
A Pacificor spokesman shared the cease and desist letter with me, one that indicates the company isn't looking for another project beyond what's envisioned as two or more live action feature films that continue the apocalyptic adventures hatched by James Cameron. Here is the letter:http://www.deadline.com/2010/08/terminator-rights-holder-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-kill-proposed-3d-animated-feature/ so this confirms pacificor is not interested in doing a tscc movie, or anything else but live action films. sounds kinda silly for them to be that picky? I would have made a deal on the animated film and encouraged the tscc film, if I were pacificor. they blew their chance at a feature movie when they pissed off sony and lionsgate at the auction. I wonder how long it will take for them to realize no one is going to do business with them? Do you find this valuable? |
