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Discussion: Initial Conditions

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termi-ninja-tor	Initial Conditions Oct 1 2010, 4:17 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 1 2010, 4:17 PM EDT The story ought to begin with initial conditions defined by what happened at the end of T2. The only real requirement to start up the series is that, in the beginning, where Sarah is and what she is doing have to make sense and be consistent with what the situation was at the end of T2. While you have outlined two ideas that sound exciting, how can you justify your initial conditions? At the end of T2, Skynet appears to be destroyed, and all traces of terminator technology are also destroyed, except for Uncle Bob's arm, which is caught in the gears at the steel mill and assumed to be worthless as a technology source. It makes sense to assume that Sarah believes Skynet has been destroyed and Judgment Day avoided. Obviously, Sarah is wanted as a terrorist and murderer by the FBI. What would you have her be doing like five years later, given these initial conditions? In "Idea #1," you have Sarah leading a band of thieves, pulling "capers" to steal money to live off. Does this make sense? This type of activity is pretty high profile with significant risk of being caught or killed. Do you consider it wiser than laying low as a waitress? In "Idea #2," you have Sarah and John living in armored SUVs with supply depots and bunkers scattered about and they interact with underworld types. But how do they get the money to do this and to support themselves? Steal? Does it all come out of the ATMs? Again, if their key goal is to avoid capture by the FBI, would this be the smartest way to live? By the way, I always thought John figured out how to steal from the ATMs without any help from Sarah. Also, we know the future can be changed. Thus, Sarah and John cannot assume that John will survive until 2029 or whatever. He could be killed any day. In fact, Skynet was trying to do just that in T2. John is not invulnerable. Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: Arnold fan fic James Cameron JF John Conner Linda Hamilton Movies Sarah Conner Summer Glau T1 T2. T3.T4 Terminator TSCC TV Show
ChrisCoachKKincey	1. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 1 2010, 5:27 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 1 2010, 5:27 PM EDT John may not be invulnerable, but he may THINK he is: that was the premise I was going for...if so, how much of a davedevil is he willing to go? We know his mother is headstrong. We know she is also his protector. I think this sets up an intriguing tension. That's all. My ideas were completely a "what if" deal. They popped into my head and I wrote them down. Didn't do any analysis about their validity or anything like that. They just seemed kinda cool at the time. Oh, BTW, for the un-informed: TNT is referring to my ideas found in my "TSCC What If?" reboot thread. As for theunderworld stuff how else woudl they survive? Hunted by the FBI for terrorism means they really should NOT be in the USA at all. If they do erolling John in a public high school is a completely bad idea. So is leaving your fiance and having him report you as a missing person under the same name you are using in the new place you go to. Also, Sarah may assume Skynet is gone but she's made that assumption before. She may not make it again. I would think she may feel like it could happen again, and even plan for it (thus the stoage depots) but function more like a super vigillante. hard to do anything of any consequence if you have no resources. Baddies tend to respect those that might punch them in the nose (literally) and bust a cap if they don't follow orders or ask too many questions. So they make perfect sense to use them. Besides, having FBI beef is perfect cover AND street cred. I one idea I think the main them in present time is Sarah getting wind of FBI hunt and trying to find a way to plant evidence to both clear her and make agent understand about JDay and Skynet. At the same time she is building depot network "just in case." Already outside the law she uses baddies to get what she needs. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
termi-ninja-tor	2. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 1 2010, 9:32 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 1 2010, 9:32 PM EDT "John may not be invulnerable, but he may THINK he is: that was the premise I was going for...if so, how much of a davedevil is he willing to go? We know his mother is headstrong. We know she is also his protector. I think this sets up an intriguing tension. That's all." There is no reason John should think he is invulnerable. By this logic, there was no reason for him to run from the T1000 in T2. And no reason for Sarah to run from Arnie, because she would know that her son John lived in the future to send Kyle. They surely know that the future can be changed. "No fate but what we make." Post reply Do you find this valuable?
termi-ninja-tor	3. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 1 2010, 9:49 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 1 2010, 9:49 PM EDT "As for theunderworld stuff how else woudl they survive?" As we saw in TSCC and as I asked in my post, one alternative would be to go back to waitressing. It is definitely below the radar, and it should be sustainable for a long time. Do you deny this? "Hunted by the FBI for terrorism means they really should NOT be in the USA at all." I agree with this. They should be in Canada or Latin America, where Sarah lived between T1 and T2. It was a matter of showmakers' convenience to set her in the U.S. at the pilot. "If they do erolling John in a public high school is a completely bad idea." If they are living in a small town in middle America (which they were in the pilot), I submit that a kid that is high school age but not attending high school would suffer a higher profile in the community than if he were just another student in school. They would forever be answering the question of why isn't he in high school. They might have to file papers with excuses for him to be home schooled. He would definitely stand out. "So is leaving your fiance and having him report you as a missing person under the same name you are using in the new place you go to." Leaving your fiance should be OK. Being reported as a missing person was unexpected. Sarah should have told Charley that she is leaving or at least left him a goodbye note so as to make sure he does not report them as missing persons. And as Cam pointed out, Sarah should have changed their last names, just to be sure. But on the other hand, it was a convenient way to set Ellison and Cromartie on their trail and start the action going. "Also, Sarah may assume Skynet is gone but she's made that assumption before. She may not make it again." I'm sorry but I don't remember when she made that assumption before. Can you help me out here and remind me? And why not again? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ChrisCoachKKincey	4. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 2 2010, 12:14 AM EDT ""As for theunderworld stuff how else woudl they survive?" As we saw in TSCC and as I asked in my post, one alternative would be to go back to waitressing. It is definitely below the radar, and it should be sustainable for a long time. Do you deny this? "Hunted by the FBI for terrorism means they really should NOT be in the USA at all." I agree with this. They should be in Canada or Latin America, where Sarah lived between T1 and T2. It was a matter of showmakers' convenience to set her in the U.S. at the pilot. "If they do erolling John in a public high school is a completely bad idea." If they are living in a small town in middle America (which they were in the pilot), I submit that a kid that is high school age but not attending high school would suffer a higher profile in the community than if he were just another student in school. They would forever be answering the question of why isn't he in high school. They might have to file papers with excuses for him to be home schooled. He would definitely stand out. "So is leaving your fiance and having him report you as a missing person under the same name you are using in the new place you go to." Leaving your fiance should be OK. Being reported as a missing person was unexpected. Sarah should have told Charley that she is leaving or at least left him a goodbye note so as to make sure he does not report them as missing persons. And as Cam pointed out, Sarah should have changed their last names, just to be sure. But on the other hand, it was a convenient way to set Ellison and Cromartie on their trail and start the action going. "Also, Sarah may assume Skynet is gone but she's made that assumption before. She may not make it again." I'm sorry but I don't remember when she made that assumption before. Can you help me out here and remind me? And why not again?" Sarah found out as she was escaping from Pescadero that another Terminator had come back from the future: Uncle Bob, who was with John at the time "come with me if you want to live." People home school all over the place. I'd see them hold up on a farm rather than her going back to waitressing, which is just...boring! Like I said, I didn't think this idea thru. I just wrote it down as fast as I could so I wouldn't lose it: seemed pretty good at the time. These are augmentations of my ideas on a reboot that I posted on my rant page. Dunno if you've read that but it goes into more detail about contolling underworld ops and why they'd do that. As for under the radar, I think not being prepared and allowing anyone at anytime to have assess to you with no prep or defense layers or contingency plans for various attacks (FBI and Terminators would head this list) is not something I think Sarah wouldn't plan for. I also see her as proactive and smart enough to find out how the FBI works and use that data for her own purposes. My take on things would be she posed as a stunt double on major movies and rubbed shoulders with lots of elite military and supercop types, who show ther the ropes and the protocols. TV shows like Chase provide a rich source of fugitive chasing intel. Whatever they do, I am sure they are not going about it being poor. This may mean they work both sides of present day law. I'm just throwin' this stuff out for discussion. No hard and fast rules here! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
termi-ninja-tor	5. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 2 2010, 12:43 AM EDT "Sarah found out as she was escaping from Pescadero that another Terminator had come back from the future: Uncle Bob, who was with John at the time 'come with me if you want to live.'" The words Skynet and Terminator mean different things. Skynet is not a Terminator, and a Terminator is not Skynet. At the end of T1, Arnie had been crushed in the industrial press. Sarah had been convinced that there will be a Skynet and there will be a Judgment Day. Accordingly, she decided to drive south, and we saw her driving in Mexico. There is no way she was thinking that Skynet was defeated and gone. At the beginning of T2, John was living with his foster parents and Sarah was in Pescadero. While in Pescadero, we saw her ranting at Dr. Silberman about the threats of Terminators and of Judgment Day brought on by Skynet. Obviously, nothing had changed her mind that had convinced her that Skynet was gone. She still believed Skynet was a real threat. And Judgment Day would still come. When she saw Uncle Bob as she was trying to escape from Pescadero, the sight of him must only have reconfirmed to her that the threat was real. That here was further proof that there would be a Skynet, and Judgment Day was to be feared. There was not a situation where she rediscovered that there would be a Skynet after somehow thinking that it was gone. That never happened. With Uncle Bob's help, John and Sarah left Pescadero as they were pursued by the T1000. They get away to Enrique's hideout, where they got guns and rested. Sarah was still convinced that there will be a Skynet and still convinced that Judgment Day is a threat. She is so convinced of these things that she leaves on a mission to kill Miles Dyson. Sarah blew up Cyberdyne, and the Terminators went into the melting pool. This was the first time Sarah believed Skynet has been stopped. And after this is where TSCC is set to start. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
termi-ninja-tor	6. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 2 2010, 12:54 AM EDT "People home school all over the place. I'd see them hold up on a farm rather than her going back to waitressing, which is just...boring!" The vast majority of students are not homeschooled. They attend school in large masses. That is the best place to hide. If Sarah knew how to work on a farm, maybe that would have been a good place for her to hide. A lot safer than the two activities you proposed for her, heading a band of thieves or stealing from ATMs. And in fact we saw in T1 that she did have experience as a waitress, so it would be logical to start TSCC with Sarah waitressing. And if you're being hunted by the FBI, boring is probably good. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
termi-ninja-tor	7. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 2 2010, 1:24 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 2 2010, 1:24 AM EDT "My take on things would be she posed as a stunt double on major movies and rubbed shoulders with lots of elite military and supercop types, who show ther the ropes and the protocols. TV shows like Chase provide a rich source of fugitive chasing intel. Whatever they do, I am sure they are not going about it being poor. This may mean they work both sides of present day law." Sarah as a stunt double? Seriously? Is this what she would be doing while heading a band of thieves? Or while she is living out of armored SUVs traveling between supply depots and bunkers? Yes, waitresses might be poor, but they also don't draw a lot of attention to themselves. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
termi-ninja-tor	8. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 2 2010, 1:37 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 2 2010, 1:37 AM EDT I think the best way to survive is to avoid the conflict. That's what Sarah taught John. Run away, don't let them get you. Hiding under the radar is the best defense. It is better than holing up with arms and armor. Would you rather be shooting at an attacking terminator and hoping for a lucky shot or hiding out of sight where he can't find you? Since Sarah blew up Cyberdyne, her key pursuers are the FBI. Holing up with arms and armor against the FBI is not a successful strategy. Just ask the Branch Davidians in Waco. Would you rather be with the Branch Davidians holding a gun at a window or undiscovered and delivering meals as a waitress? Boring as it may sound as a starting point, I am ever more convinced that the TSCC pilot showed the only logical way the series could start. The end of T2 defined the initial conditions to start up TSCC. We need to respect them. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ChrisCoachKKincey	9. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 2 2010, 2:19 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 2 2010, 2:19 AM EDT ""Sarah found out as she was escaping from Pescadero that another Terminator had come back from the future: Uncle Bob, who was with John at the time 'come with me if you want to live.'" The words Skynet and Terminator mean different things. Skynet is not a Terminator, and a Terminator is not Skynet. At the end of T1, Arnie had been crushed in the industrial press. Sarah had been convinced that there will be a Skynet and there will be a Judgment Day. Accordingly, she decided to drive south, and we saw her driving in Mexico. There is no way she was thinking that Skynet was defeated and gone. At the beginning of T2, John was living with his foster parents and Sarah was in Pescadero. While in Pescadero, we saw her ranting at Dr. Silberman about the threats of Terminators and of Judgment Day brought on by Skynet. Obviously, nothing had changed her mind that had convinced her that Skynet was gone. She still believed Skynet was a real threat. And Judgment Day would still come. When she saw Uncle Bob as she was trying to escape from Pescadero, the sight of him must only have reconfirmed to her that the threat was real. That here was further proof that there would be a Skynet, and Judgment Day was to be feared. There was not a situation where she rediscovered that there would be a Skynet after somehow thinking that it was gone. That never happened. With Uncle Bob's help, John and Sarah left Pescadero as they were pursued by the T1000. They get away to Enrique's hideout, where they got guns and rested. Sarah was still convinced that there will be a Skynet and still convinced that Judgment Day is a threat. She is so convinced of these things that she leaves on a mission to kill Miles Dyson. Sarah blew up Cyberdyne, and the Terminators went into the melting pool. This was the first time Sarah believed Skynet has been stopped. And after this is where TSCC is set to start." All I was saying was when Sarah saw Uncle Bob, this was a living confirmation that obviously Skynet was still active in the future. You're much better at infering whatever it was she thought. I just kinda look at the action and take what is happening at surface value. I;ve already been accused of being lazy and I accept that. Not real interested in doing a college level analysis of the subtle nuances of this franchise, like it was Moby Dick. I don't even read a lot of the novels that give a wider view of what happened in the T verse, although a fan emailed me and got me to read the lastest T4 novel by Sahn, which was prety good. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ChrisCoachKKincey	10. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 2 2010, 2:33 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 2 2010, 2:33 AM EDT "I think the best way to survive is to avoid the conflict. That's what Sarah taught John. Run away, don't let them get you. Hiding under the radar is the best defense. It is better than holing up with arms and armor. Would you rather be shooting at an attacking terminator and hoping for a lucky shot or hiding out of sight where he can't find you? Since Sarah blew up Cyberdyne, her key pursuers are the FBI. Holing up with arms and armor against the FBI is not a successful strategy. Just ask the Branch Davidians in Waco. Would you rather be with the Branch Davidians holding a gun at a window or undiscovered and delivering meals as a waitress? Boring as it may sound as a starting point, I am ever more convinced that the TSCC pilot showed the only logical way the series could start. The end of T2 defined the initial conditions to start up TSCC. We need to respect them." TNT, I;m not trying to argue any of these points. Lighten up dude. You have your ideas for how the show would/could/should go. I have my own. My ideas are not canon. They also, as I have mentioned are not well thought out: I wrote them down as soon as I thought of them. they are more a point to start a discussion. But if we did have a discussion about these ideas, the spirit of which you approach them might intimdate anyone that might entertain them. Is that you intent? Bc basically what I see is "paralysis by analysis." Hope you don't go into the fan fic section and blast hopeful writer's submissions like this. and if this is a backhanded defense of JF for all my analysis of his show well I didn't get and spend millions on a production. If I had maybe I'd deserve the same treatment. Your original premise was what if the show was redone what would be what we'd base the show on. Obviously that means it takes a different line than what TSCC gave us. So you yourself don't think JF's vision was "good enough." You already know I don't: it didn't have much in the way of the basic Terminator story in it and of what it did doesn't seem to fit logically to me. And many other fans too. We all have different ideas about what that is and how best to "fix" this. But let's please not change what we say from "people home school are over the place" to infer I meant that " the vast majority of students are not homeschooled." These are two different things that mean different things. It smells of trying to start an arguement and thus a flame war: not my intent. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
t5000	11. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 2 2010, 4:46 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 2 2010, 4:46 AM EDT " I;ve already been accused of being lazy and I accept that. " wasnt JF being lazy too in alot of what he did? not enough thought or research? kinda ironic? no one is going to reboot the tv series tscc. there might be movie or mini series to finish what btr started but that is it. a reboot for T-1 is very possible, better to spend energy on that than trying to create a better tscc. I think tscc ratings killed any chance of even another type T- show for tv. I think Tscc and any future tv show that is T related should be a mini series. that way you have a definite ending and people might tune in for a short story if 1st show was well done. In a mini series you could and should be fast paced regardless if it is action or not, everything happens quickly. both . all t movies happen in a 24 hour period? maybe they insipered 24 show? Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
ChrisCoachKKincey	12. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 2 2010, 11:40 AM EDT "" I;ve already been accused of being lazy and I accept that. " wasnt JF being lazy too in alot of what he did? not enough thought or research? kinda ironic? no one is going to reboot the tv series tscc. there might be movie or mini series to finish what btr started but that is it. a reboot for T-1 is very possible, better to spend energy on that than trying to create a better tscc. I think tscc ratings killed any chance of even another type T- show for tv. I think Tscc and any future tv show that is T related should be a mini series. that way you have a definite ending and people might tune in for a short story if 1st show was well done. In a mini series you could and should be fast paced regardless if it is action or not, everything happens quickly. both . all t movies happen in a 24 hour period? maybe they insipered 24 show? " Wow. brilliant. Never thought of a mini-series. Wish I had! That's what TSCC should have been, a mini-series, IMO. Then, it would have had to have had a definate ending. and if successful could have been made int another mini-series...but trying t tie in an ongoing series to canon that has been knwn, and expected for 25 years is a tuff task. IMO. I think this would have been two much for anyone to take on, given the parameters - no matter what you do a lot of people are not going to be happy! Movies give a finite "clip" and a mini-series (three eps, maybe...) could do the same but you can add more detail. ...and leave the audience wanting more! It would also give the opportunity to create an avid fan base and let THEM clamour for more show. makes you popular. If TSCC had done what it did in the last six eps I think it would happen. But I don't think they could do that finale...or kill off Cam like that. But if they did a "best off" in a several ep arc it could have been a hit. If not, meh, everyone waits for he next movie and no huge loss. Now ht I think of it I'm very surprised they didn't go that route. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
termi-ninja-tor	13. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 2 2010, 1:05 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 2 2010, 1:05 PM EDT "But if we did have a discussion about these ideas, the spirit of which you approach them might intimdate anyone that might entertain them. Is that you intent? Bc basically what I see is 'paralysis by analysis.'" Sorry you got that impression. This is just my style. I am very detail oriented. Given your reaction, I am going to try to stay out of this thread from now on. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ChrisCoachKKincey	14. RE: Initial Conditions Oct 2 2010, 1:12 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 2 2010, 1:12 PM EDT ""But if we did have a discussion about these ideas, the spirit of which you approach them might intimdate anyone that might entertain them. Is that you intent? Bc basically what I see is 'paralysis by analysis.'" Sorry you got that impression. This is just my style. I am very detail oriented. Given your reaction, I am going to try to stay out of this thread from now on." no prob. Given your tone, I wasn't sure you weren't attacking me to get me off of attacking JF. Has happened many times before. If THAT wasn't your intent, it's all good. But t5000 is right tho... Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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