Location: Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles Discussion Forum

Discussion: What shouda been...Reported This is a featured thread

Showing 1 - 20 of 128  |  Show  posts at a time
2 3 4 5 | Next > Last
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
What shouda been...
Aug 12 2010, 7:12 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2010, 7:12 PM EDT
I looked on the TSCC wikipedia and saw Bear said he talked to JF and was told enough of S# that he thought it would be good.

Maybe S3 does exist! I just wish someone would ciome out with it. Begging hasn't done it, neither does fanboy idolizing of anyone assoc with TSCC. So I rant: challenge, et al. But that isn't working either! So...nuts.

I'm very tired of trying to figure out what could have been AND what should have been. But I can't let it go. So I chimed in. Maybe I'll follow advice and start new thread, as an outlet. Thanks. See you on the other side...

I started a TSCC S3 novel project with some fans of this wiki, and TSCC staff (sworn not to say who) and we came up with some pretty cool ideas for S3, based upon what we had to work with - which I thought was a dead end at first, based upon the finale.

If you know me, then you know I rant (a lot) and some of that is that TSCC I think should have gone in vastly different directions right out the box. I've heard similar echos for fans here: even those that have flamed me for my rants.

So TNT has a thread about what S3 would be but this thread is different. I want to know if anyone has any ideas that go back before Born To Run ep, and if so, what?

I can post (some of) me ideas, but that would be mostly cutting and pasting from old threads. I may start a fan page on the subject. This wiki seems to roll like the tide - sometimes it is in, sometimes it's out out.
Do you find this valuable?    
termi-ninja-tor
termi-ninja-tor
1. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 12 2010, 11:15 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2010, 11:15 PM EDT
"***********************************

termi-ninja-tor said:

Coach, I hear you about feeling the whole series might benefit from a rewrite or a reboot.

And I appreciate some of the ideas you outlined above. Sounds like it could be a pretty cool series you'd have chugging along.

Let's suppose TSCC was redone your way. I mean let the story start out the way you said and then have it run along as you have described. My question would be:

What would your series have happening in the last episode of Season 2? Where would the story be and what would all the characters be doing?

***********************************
Coach said:

Meet me over in the What Shoulda Been thread and we can discuss...tired of hijacking other people's threads. In this case, as I said, it's YOUR fault. So. I blame it all on you!

Been going along fine whistling in the dark for 25 years - 25 years man! And you come along and upset the apple cart with something that was right before my eyes and I never saw it. Now, everything has changed...

Like I said, I blame you. Lol if you want to, doesn't matter. It happens. I KNOW it happens. It can't be stopped, it can't be reasoned with, and it will keep going until it gets its target.

What cold is how cruel this is: I don't know whether to help Skynet push the button or just fall on a hand grenade/

* since Resistance is futile...""
OK. Here I am.

Penny for your thoughts.
Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
2. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 12 2010, 11:36 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2010, 11:36 PM EDT
"OK. Here I am.

Penny for your thoughts."
First, I'm gonna direct you to my profile page. You;ll find some links to fan pages I;ve made,

The first of these is a humorous look at how I thought the tv show would go, and how it would impact society - like T1 and T2 did.

The next of these are rant pages; but on them are outlines for a revised TSCC from the ground up. I was challenged by a fan (or two) who didn't think I had any original ideas that garnered any merit. /this was of course a backhanded way of saying only JF could write anything about TSCC.

Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
3. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 12 2010, 11:36 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2010, 11:36 PM EDT
Well, the outcome of this was I was approached by several fans and "others" who thought not only thought the ideas were good, but they had some of their own - and wanted to share them on a project.

Of course, the project went nowhere (as did the No Fate Fan Video Game Project) but it fleshed out some really good concepts. One thing it did for me was allow me to have a few conversations over lunch with String Theory Scientists at the Stanford Reseach Institure. (They made the computer mouse and HDTV among a lot of other things). They taught me about the mechanics of how time travel could work, and were eager to see their data used in a fictional sense where could be expounded upon beyond mere theory but also show a lay person how it could really happen.

This was one of the agreed upon objectives - and I really think we could have at least done that. Still do. And peeps like JF wouldn't have to stick their head in the sand about the subject of TDE's. Of course, Jim Cameron didn't do much to advance the time travel cause, but then, doesn't Dr. Who travel thru space in a phone booth?

At any rate there is LOTS of content there: on the rant pages I have clear notes as to where to find these postings: all you have to do is read and then scoll down to the different colored text. You can skip the rant part - you already know my deal...

If you hold my hands to the fire I'll go and fetch the links but hey I', lazy so the truth is out now.

You are still are the heart of this matter with your timeline hypothesis for T1 & T2. Every angle I look at in the T verse your premise is the lever everything else hangs off of. That makes you a defacto member of our TSCC S3 Fan Novel Writer's Guild!

That's an honor, IMO, not a joke...
Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
4. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 12 2010, 11:44 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2010, 11:44 PM EDT
http://www.sarahconnorfans.com/page/Chris+%22Coach+K%22+Kincey%27s+rant+on+TSCC%27s+continuity%2C+content%2C+and+bus.+mgmt+challenges

This is one link to a complete scenario outlined on the page. Just scroll down to Item #6. The text is bright yellow.
Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
5. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 12 2010, 11:56 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2010, 11:56 PM EDT
http://www.sarahconnorfans.com/page/Fanfic%3A+Satire+on+our+future+Terminator+entertainment

This is a humorous link
Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
6. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 12:00 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 12:00 AM EDT
* I should prolly go back in and edit typos and flub grammar. hadn't read this humor page in over a year! Note: gotta stop drinkin' and writing late at night...* Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
7. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 12:10 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 12:10 AM EDT
Yo, TNT, the TSCC reboot was fleshed out at length and massaged by several very active TSCC fans. So is a LOT more stuff but it is locked away. Everyone signed Non-Disclosures. I don't know if I fully own it but no other contracts for intellectual material rights.

Just saying that we took this premise waaaaaay down the road to see what the journey looked like, and it was both exciting and engaging every step of the way. Would have really liked to have seen it become a reality. Lots of background research and legwork put into it.

So it was not just a mere flight of fancy!

And it had the potential to go a loooong way into the future. there was plenty of material for exploring all sorts of things.

We all thought fans would really like it.

One of the objectives was to give validity that fans could come up with neat ideas and present them in a way others could appreciate. Hey, what about AEM? We wanted to open that door a little wider - albeit not with a career in mind.

This writing project was designed to take fan fic to the next level. The outined data became some of the opening conversations about what could be IF you started with a clean sheet of paper, using what you knew about T from T1 & T2. If wasn't the entire premise, but it was a starting point for a NEW conversation about what TSCC could BE about. And many good ideas from others came as a result of it.
Do you find this valuable?    
termi-ninja-tor
termi-ninja-tor
8. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 12:19 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 12:19 AM EDT
"Yo, TNT, the TSCC reboot was fleshed out at length and massaged by several very active TSCC fans. So is a LOT more stuff but it is locked away. Everyone signed Non-Disclosures. I don't know if I fully own it but no other contracts for intellectual material rights.

Just saying that we took this premise waaaaaay down the road to see what the journey looked like, and it was both exciting and engaging every step of the way. Would have really liked to have seen it become a reality. Lots of background research and legwork put into it.

So it was not just a mere flight of fancy!

And it had the potential to go a loooong way into the future. there was plenty of material for exploring all sorts of things.

We all thought fans would really like it.

One of the objectives was to give validity that fans could come up with neat ideas and present them in a way others could appreciate. Hey, what about AEM? We wanted to open that door a little wider - albeit not with a career in mind.

This writing project was designed to take fan fic to the next level. The outined data became some of the opening conversations about what could be IF you started with a clean sheet of paper, using what you knew about T from T1 & T2. If wasn't the entire premise, but it was a starting point for a NEW conversation about what TSCC could BE about. And many good ideas from others came as a result of it."
You all put in so much work for this, and it has been hidden away under lock and key.

You ought to post with all the other fanfics it so everyone can enjoy it, or you ought to sell it for a book or illustrated novel, etc.

Too bad.
Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
9. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 12:28 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 12:28 AM EDT
Now that old business has been attended to, got some new stuff to cover. This is TNT's idea:

T1 and T2 are on different timelines.

Reason is T1 Terminator was sent by a different Skynet than those in T2. The Skynet is T2 didn't have a "jump start" cheat to propel advances in technoloy that came FROM the future: until Skynet sent T back and it was defeated, all technology had to advance organically, on a snail mail (regular) time pace.

So Uncle Bob and T-1000 are from a DIFFERENT Skynet than the original one. This new Skynet may have same objectives but it came as result of leftover's from T in T1, thus is "grandfather" of Skynet - the very thing that created it!

Yes, it's very confusing;

Like, Kyle Reese is old enough to BE John's grandfather.

Anyway, in 25 years of T1 and T2 I totally missed that. Apparently, so did Jim Cameron!

Because this opens up whole new vistas in the possibilities of the T verse time "rules." Such as Kyle stating "nothing else came through."

This could BE true in HIS original timeline yet NOT be true in an altered one. So it allows for new possibilities, and thus new storylines - such as T2!

That's just the beginning...
Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
10. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 12:41 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 12:41 AM EDT
"You all put in so much work for this, and it has been hidden away under lock and key.

You ought to post with all the other fanfics it so everyone can enjoy it, or you ought to sell it for a book or illustrated novel, etc.

Too bad."
Hey man, these are really a lot of other people's ideas along WITH mine. I really admire the heart, desire, passion, openness, and comraderie we all shared. I was just a catalyst, and instigator.

People came to me with radical new concepts that totally blew my mind, and made me think of things I had never thought of before. That's part of what made it so enjoyable.

Of course, this also challenged me to step my creative game up, as it did everyone. Real contributors, all.

I kept the stuff you just read up so others could have a basis for BEING instigated, but it went beyond that. It also served as a rally point so those that would flame would have a worthy target. I took a LOT of heat! But it also served notice that there WERE some legit ideas. even if off the top of someone's head.

I thought there'd be a lot of backlash with these pages (yes, one fan did delete an entire page but the mods got it back) but just when I was bracing to take the blame for this movement, fans started coming and contributing.

Like your idea about alt timelines for T1 and T2. With such creative interaction one idea would spark someone else who would inspire something else causing someone else to cognite and then the first person would come back with a revision and the whole process would start all over again and THEN we'd all "discuss" (analyze) it and see it it fit and why which would lead to even more...

So I may be to blame but again, it's not all mine. What you see on those pages is, but believe me, it's only the tip of the iceberg!

And we were gonna post as a fan fic novel, but the way T franchise is all screwed up, thought effort would wind up being futile and peeps involved getting screwed over. In the end, I didn't want that for the group.
Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
11. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 12:58 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 12:58 AM EDT
Now then, back to what I've been thinking about all day about your alt T1/T2 timeline. (Imagine me in business client's office discussing how to rev up sales - as we're doing it) in a triple black business suit driving a triple black convertable (went totally gangsta today) - and all the while really thinking about THIS stuff:

We don't know if Sarah dies in the future. That I know of no one asks a T or Kyle in T1 and T2. She might still be there, hovering over John to make sure he gets things done. Or she may have died in any way any where along the timeline. Who knows?

Jim Cameron.

And like JF, he ain't talking about it!

Also, if T2 is on alternate timeline (different from what time was when Skynet had to develop aturally over time - not via arm and busted advanced chip to give Dyson/Cyberdyne ideas) then why would they just have one TDE and only send back one T at a time?

I know we fans hate the T of the week concept for the tv show but that's bc we are spoiled meaning we look at this story AS a story seen on a small rectangle screen each week.

cont
Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
12. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 12:58 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 12:58 AM EDT
What if we looked at it tactically from Skynet's point of view. Wouldn't it make sense IF you had the tactical capability to send T's back in time to make that capability redundant in multiple locations, and then send back scores of T's to handle various missions?

Also, wouldn't you send them back as working units, coordinating their activities with each other, which also provides backup?

But then. Jim C wrote this like it was Friday the 13th with a robot, so such tactical considerations did not come into play: was of no use for his MOVIE.

But T has grown bigger and better than that. It has evolved and matured, even though it may not have been everything we wanted to see in T3, T4 and even TSCC it still lives as a whole complete universe past(s). present(s), and future(s) in our minds and our imaginations.

That's part of why we STAY fans, I think!

Your thoughts?
Do you find this valuable?    
termi-ninja-tor
termi-ninja-tor
13. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 1:37 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 1:43 AM EDT
Every time someone makes a time jump, there is the possibility of changing the timeline.

Skynet's hope when it sent back the T1000 was to kill John Connor, and that would change the whole future.

Future John's hope when it sent back Uncle Bob was to prevent that.

One result of the two of them getting sent back was that Sarah blew up Cyberdyne. This naturally wiped out the future of the T1000 and of Uncle Bob. That Skynet was destroyed.

Sarah went into hiding with John. She must have believed that Skynet was eliminated and there would be no Judgment Day. The FBI would still be after her, but no more terminators.

I remember that James Cameron even made an alternate ending for T2 where Sarah is old and John is a Senator. This implies that JC considered that they really really did beat Skynet permanently. However, since this alternate ending was never put on the theatrical release, it is not canon.

So instead, Sarah and John just laid low and avoided the FBI. That's where TSCC picks up. Sarah was living with Charley. Ellison was the FBI agent looking for her.

It was back in 1999. In another six years, by 2005, Sarah would die of cancer. Two years after that in 2007 Andy Goode would make the first Turk, and this first Turk would win the chess tournament.

As prize, the first Turk would get taken by the Air Force and eventually it would be put in charge of the U.S. nuclear arsenal. After it becomes Skynet, it causes Judgment Day.

Years after this Judgment Day, Skynet gets a hold of the TDE and sends Cromartie back to kill John. Future John captures the TDE and sends Cameron to protect himself.

Both Cromartie and Cameron catch up with Sarah and John at the Red River High School in 1999. Their time jumps back to 1999 put them in a position to change the future again.

Later, Cam, Sarah, and John jump forward to 2007 and burn the first Turk.
Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
14. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 2:08 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 2:08 AM EDT
"Every time someone makes a time jump, there is the possibility of changing the timeline.

Skynet's hope when it sent back the T1000 was to kill John Connor, and that would change the whole future.

Future John's hope when it sent back Uncle Bob was to prevent that.

One result of the two of them getting sent back was that Sarah blew up Cyberdyne. This naturally wiped out the future of the T1000 and of Uncle Bob. That Skynet was destroyed.

Sarah went into hiding with John. She must have believed that Skynet was eliminated and there would be no Judgment Day. The FBI would still be after her, but no more terminators.

I remember that James Cameron even made an alternate ending for T2 where Sarah is old and John is a Senator. This implies that JC considered that they really really did beat Skynet permanently. However, since this alternate ending was never put on the theatrical release, it is not canon.

So instead, Sarah and John just laid low and avoided the FBI. That's where TSCC picks up. Sarah was living with Charley. Ellison was the FBI agent looking for her.

It was back in 1999. In another six years, by 2005, Sarah would die of cancer. Two years after that in 2007 Andy Goode would make the first Turk, and this first Turk would win the chess tournament.

As prize, the first Turk would get taken by the Air Force and eventually it would be put in charge of the U.S. nuclear arsenal. After it becomes Skynet, it causes Judgment Day.

Years after this Judgment Day, Skynet gets a hold of the TDE and sends Cromartie back to kill John. Future John captures the TDE and sends Cameron to protect himself.

Both Cromartie and Cameron catch up with Sarah and John at the Red River High School in 1999. Their time jumps back to 1999 put them in a position to change the future again.

Later, Cam, Sarah, and John jump forward to 2007 and burn the first Turk."
Yeah, good explanation. Got it.

Now let's get you back ON topic, so answer the question:

Starting from T2. using the TSCC characters, who would you lay out a new TSCC?

I just went back and read the stuff on my rant page starting with the fiction and going down. (sorry I never completed formating the response put on JF's blog page). The ideas there are pretty darn good. I now see why so many fans came out of the woodwork. That one piece became a galvanizing point.

Even when folks didn't agree it set a standard for creativity that others embraced and propelled forward. This became the hallmark quality of all that were associated or contributed. I have fond memories of that period, even as my heart was whenching knowing the show was going down in flames.
Do you find this valuable?    
termi-ninja-tor
termi-ninja-tor
15. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 2:09 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 2:17 AM EDT
Skynet terminators do not seem to be able to work in teams. I don't know why. From a storywriter's point of view, a team of coordinated terminators would seem too strong for one or two humans to overcome unless they were using advanced future weapons. It would seem that a solitary terminator should appear so terribly powerful and threatening that it should be scary enough.

However, I agree with Coach that terminator teams should have been explored. The transition would be like Alien to Aliens. In Alien, the single Alien was fearsome enough to take down the whole crew of the Nostromo, except for intrepid Ellen Ripley. In Aliens, a whole colony of Aliens was pitched against a squad of crack Space Marines, more than what just Ripley could deal with. This is the kind of scaling up that would be required.

Also consider the transition from Predator to multiple Predators in later movies.

Notably, Resistance time jumpers are able to work in teams. The first indication was The Engineer, who built the bank vault time machine for Cameron. That was a coordinated effort between him and Cameron. Second, Derek and his men came as a team in the same time jump and they stuck together working as a team in 2007. Unfortunately, their team fell the to weakest link, as one sloppy team member was spotted by Vick who killed them all. He would have killed Derek, too, except that Cam discovered Vick playing dead before Derek could fall into that trap.
Do you find this valuable?    
termi-ninja-tor
termi-ninja-tor
16. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 2:15 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 2:15 AM EDT
"Yeah, good explanation. Got it.

Now let's get you back ON topic, so answer the question:

Starting from T2. using the TSCC characters, who would you lay out a new TSCC?

I just went back and read the stuff on my rant page starting with the fiction and going down. (sorry I never completed formating the response put on JF's blog page). The ideas there are pretty darn good. I now see why so many fans came out of the woodwork. That one piece became a galvanizing point.

Even when folks didn't agree it set a standard for creativity that others embraced and propelled forward. This became the hallmark quality of all that were associated or contributed. I have fond memories of that period, even as my heart was whenching knowing the show was going down in flames."
Back on topic . . .

I came over to this thread hoping to get your view of how you would end Season 2. We had been talking about how we would rewrite Born to Run if we knew ahead of time that the series would be canceled.

You said you would rewrite the whole series. OK, that's fine. But if you rewrote the whole series, there would still have to be a last episode to Season 2.

So what are your thoughts about how the last episode of Season 2 should go?
Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
17. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 2:36 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 2:36 AM EDT
"Back on topic . . .

I came over to this thread hoping to get your view of how you would end Season 2. We had been talking about how we would rewrite Born to Run if we knew ahead of time that the series would be canceled.

You said you would rewrite the whole series. OK, that's fine. But if you rewrote the whole series, there would still have to be a last episode to Season 2.

So what are your thoughts about how the last episode of Season 2 should go?"
Actually, we (the writer's group I ran for the TSCC S3 Fan Novel) discussed this at length.

In the end we decided to keep the ending of the series, and pick up the pieces where it left off. So the last ep would not change. This was the idea and premise of the novel.

This prior stuff was born out of a flame war where a fan challenged me to write something completely different for TSCC - since I thought I knew so much about it and kept blasting JF as a result of my opinions.

I didn't even write an outline I just started typing...

I have no idea where S2 would end in this timeline. No practical experience writing or producing a major network drama, although I have produced and directed successful TV Talk Shows for business.

I guess it would be determined by the plot arcs and how much time we had to develop and integrate various elements and then wrap it all up - while leaving a cool cliffhanger - for the finale. That takes a bit of skill. Best one I know of was Who Shot JR arc on Dallas.

But there is plenty to work with from what I described.

What I didn't mention was fact if TSCC and Sarah and John and co. are operating on a global scale of theft and terrorism, would have a lot more after them than just FBI. MI6, KGB, etc. And per James Bond - Her Majesty's personal Terminator force - they don't mind overstepping bounds AND crossing juridictions to get their target.

Could make for quite a tour de force!

Do you find this valuable?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
18. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 2:36 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 2:36 AM EDT
Basically tho, my point is there is a lot more that could be gleaned from TSCC verse other than T of the week. Even gunfights, car chases and explosions could be smart. Given the right set up.

But as we saw with The A Team, it can also be mindless.

But, if you've seen the deleted scene from T1 that I covet on my profile page, T can be done without the gratuitous "action" and we still have smart writing that gives us compelling action, tension, intrigue and drama - all the while having the looming thread of Skynet and JDay hovering above our head even when not in the scene. Watch the 4 minute clip for proof.

But that is Jim Cameron's work: the standard I go by for all things T.
Do you find this valuable?    
termi-ninja-tor
termi-ninja-tor
19. RE: What shouda been...
Aug 13 2010, 2:40 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2010, 2:40 AM EDT
Thank you for your response.

Have a good evening!
Do you find this valuable?    
2 3 4 5 | Next > Last