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admillnx6 |
Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 28 2010, 9:32 AM EST
This has been bugging me for a while now,how can a humans personality be imprinted on to a machine?It does'nt make any sense,or am i missing something,yours in confusion.
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termi-ninja-tor |
1. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 28 2010, 9:49 AM EST
"This has been bugging me for a while now,how can a humans personality be imprinted on to a machine?It does'nt make any sense,or am i missing something,yours in confusion."Well, I actually don't think Allison's personality was imprinted on Cam. It seemed to me watching Allison from Palmdale that they had significantly different personalities. Allison seemed quite feisty, with her backtalk and throwing the food against the wall. I can't envision Cam behaving like that, it would be so out of character for her. Cam has always been more calm and measured. Cam's crying in the administrator's office was more like Allison, but to me that was an almost coincidental similarity. Cam was shown interrogating Allison to fill in background information about her life, like her parents, where she grew up, etc. There was no imprinting. (If imprinting had been possible, I would assume interrogation would be unnecessary.) The flashback scenes that we saw in Allison from Palmdale were not all Cam's memories. Some of them were actual flashbacks, like when Allison was trying to escape and ran past the cages of people and animals then jumped into the water. Cam was not there and so these were not her memories. At most, these were Allison's memories which I don't think were ever "imprinted" onto Cam. Instead, these were simple flashbacks the storytellers just gave to us. So what I think is that Cam had a basic terminator personality, maybe with female overlay for infiltration, and she constructed a rudimentary mental picture of Allison's background, which was to be used to help her infiltrate John's camp. As time passed and Cam developed, the combination of these elements plus her personal experiences resulted in the Cam personality that we saw on the show, albeit one that had different aspects depending on her situation and environment. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Xynoxx |
2. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 28 2010, 10:40 AM EST
| Post edited: Jan 28 2010, 10:49 AM EST
Hi, guys - been off the wiki for ages (v busy) but also because we are starved of ourTSCC!This matter is one I addressed some time ago, and came up with a theory that many found ro put it politely - outrageous! I happen to believe Cam and Allison are one and the same. Vestiges of Allison remain within the person we know as Cam. How did that come about? I believe that Allison went on an emissary mission for Connor to the "join us" crowd. Her party were perhaps ambushed, and she was mortally wounded, and was later found by the Weaver rebel faction, and "repaired". Not so unbelievable when you consider Stece Austin, when the technology was certainly no where as advanced. Cam's switch ingointo Allison is more than just emulation. This is a serious switch of personality. And the entire interrogation could well be Alison's lasr moments as the perosn she was, imagining what was hapening to her as a terrible "interrogation". The faction probably had to use basic >Skynet programming, as tht might have all that was available. (If we ever get a seasn 3 and Cam returns, odds are she'll be "modified" with the base program removed) I Before anxone flames - know it appears crazyat first glance; but think about it, it's not so far-fetched. Do you find this valuable? |
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termi-ninja-tor |
3. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 28 2010, 11:01 AM EST
"Hi, guys - been off the wiki for ages (v busy) but also because we are starved of ourTSCC!Hey, that's an interesting theory. So, you see Cam as kinda like Marcus, with a human brain and mostly mechanical body. And the memories of the interrogation were not real, but imagined/hallucinatory memories that arose following the trauma of her suffering. While I'm not gonna embrace this as my new belief, it certainly is not impossible. And it opens up new ideas about where Cam's relationship with John can go to. Do you find this valuable? |
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MetalHunter |
4. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 28 2010, 11:22 AM EST
| Post edited: Jan 28 2010, 11:23 AM EST
"So, you see Cam as kinda like Marcus, with a human brain and mostly mechanical body.How about a Caprica's Virtual Zoe Graystone case? ;) Maybe Cameron's chip was designed for the complete emulation of Allison's brain and mind... :P Do you find this valuable? |
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Xynoxx |
5. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 28 2010, 1:11 PM EST
| Post edited: Jan 28 2010, 1:16 PM EST
Well, not so sure about the Marcus thing. I've been mulling this theory long before I knew of Marcus. I went on little things that came from various interviews, and stuff from the series itself.SG saying when asked about Cameron - She's part human. But this was never explored further by the people asking. Or Ca gameron telling John in BTR, that she would not let him try to rescue Sarh, but she does help (an emotional response, as opposed to a T) and sacrifices herself into the bargain. Cameron when she was glitching, after John had worked on the chip that defines Cam. There are so many avenues, she could be the untilmate hybrid. Right at the beginning, she said she was different. She's a lot more than "just" a cyborg. In the tech that created Weaver, an advancedm hybrid Cam would not be beyond the capabilities of the "join us" rebels. I've even considered that the reason Skynet so babdly wants to off Savannah, and Weaver considers her iportant, is that Savannah grows up to be the person who "designs" the LMT, giving them a sentience that enables them to go independent. All things are possible in the T universe. I really despise those concrete-brained TV execs who killed this show. Been rewatching it. For all his flaws, Josh did give us something special. amn those "conrflake" merchants who inhabit exec offics. They obviously forgotten shows like X-Files, Star Treck and Babylon 5 to name but 3, that came back from the ExecsÄ chop, to become TV egends and huge money spinners. All it took were execs with cojones. The rest is history. Sigh.d. John - Do you feel different? Cam(looking directly at him) Yes. John - are you fixed? Cam - I dunno. ll she wanted, was for him to touch her, as she was wel able to fix herself. Sometimes, it's nice to have help- I(cont) Do you find this valuable? |
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Xynoxx |
6. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 28 2010, 1:12 PM EST
| Post edited: Jan 28 2010, 3:01 PM EST
(cont)t is possible that there are organic bits of Allison in there. Not sure about the brain part; but just maybe a mapping of Allison's brain onto ip Do you find this valuable? |
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Xynoxx |
7. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 28 2010, 3:04 PM EST
Sprry! Lots of appalling typos. Doing this while working on smething that needs some serious attention.Do you find this valuable? |
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admillnx6 |
8. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 28 2010, 4:16 PM EST
| Post edited: Jan 28 2010, 4:22 PM EST
Wish i had,nt bothered now.
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Schmacky |
9. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 28 2010, 9:12 PM EST
"This has been bugging me for a while now,how can a humans personality be imprinted on to a machine?It does'nt make any sense,or am i missing something,yours in confusion."I always thought of that Cameron thought her memories were Allison's because Cameron had the same memories. Not the mindset, but the memories. Like.. Cameron was there in the interrogation. I'm sure cameras were all over the place, Cameron could see Allison running from here to there to off the ship, etc. It's just in her glitch, Cameron mistook herself for Allison and played the part. Do you find this valuable? |
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admillnx6 |
10. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 28 2010, 10:38 PM EST
Im getting interested,carry on.
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horhai |
11. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 29 2010, 6:25 PM EST
| Post edited: Jan 29 2010, 6:26 PM EST
"I always thought of that Cameron thought her memories were Allison's because Cameron had the same memories. Not the mindset, but the memories. Like.. Cameron was there in the interrogation. I'm sure cameras were all over the place, Cameron could see Allison running from here to there to off the ship, etc. It's just in her glitch, Cameron mistook herself for Allison and played the part."didnt see any cameras duh Do you find this valuable? |
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SupremeDalek |
12. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Jan 29 2010, 8:33 PM EST
"Hi, guys - been off the wiki for ages (v busy) but also because we are starved of ourTSCC!While I don't have any preferred theories on Cameron's origins, I found your take on it very intriguing when you originally posted this idea to the forum, however long ago it was (I've been lurking around here for a long time). One of the things that put doubt on this theory for me, however, was that at times Cameron would show a complete lack of understanding for some human mannerisms or why we do the things we do. Even if you were to loose the memory of your self identify, would you really loose all of your memory for fundamental things (at least fundamental for humans)? Do you find this valuable? |
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I.Join |
13. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Oct 14 2010, 5:51 PM EDT
Writing the nth fanfic I was looking for theories, and I found this page...First of all, when she says she is different... she is different compared the old T-800 John knew when young! I think you have to concentrate on what the writer was thinking while writing too. While watching the episode for the first time I thought he was quoting, saying Cam had imprinted memories and we were seeing cam... that was a bad quote, and we then discover Cam was interrogating Ally, so there was no imprinting... and no quote. I don't think there is more part of Ally in Cam than some constructed memories needed to infiltrate... There is no personality, soul... Surely there are not part of brain or body, since Ally was alive when Cam was yet ready. I think Ally's memories came back cause the damage on the chip, but this happened in a second moment: at the first moment she remembered nothing. I think what we have seen in s02e04 is the real Cameron: without memories, she was free from thinking "I'm a machine, I can't do"... so she has been herself. When John naively remembered her what she was she began to forget who she was. I've another complementary theory, (I think both things happened) but I'll use it in my fanfic, and it's more technical... and doesn't involve soul or ghosts too... Do you find this valuable? |
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termi-ninja-tor |
14. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Oct 14 2010, 6:57 PM EDT
"Writing the nth fanfic I was looking for theories, and I found this page...Party on, free spirit ! Do you find this valuable? |
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t5000 |
15. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Oct 15 2010, 1:22 AM EDT
In AFP cameron went blank, and the first memories to surface were those of allison, so she thought she was Allison. later all her memories surfaced and she knew who she really was.so for that , allisons memories or data on allison would have to be in her memory banks. If she was ever wiped they should not be there unless they or the data was put back , including the interrogation, from both perspectives. which suggests cameron was never wiped, but simply chose to be different or just had her programming altered. but no human parts or memory imprints, just data and cams memories of her time with allison. Do you find this valuable? |
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meanoldmoe |
16. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Oct 15 2010, 8:15 AM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 15 2010, 8:17 AM EDT
Very interesting theory...and believable ....unless I was a die hard Jameron...lol. ( in reference to Xynoxx's theory )
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termi-ninja-tor |
17. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Oct 15 2010, 9:18 AM EDT
"In AFP cameron went blank, and the first memories to surface were those of allison, so she thought she was Allison. later all her memories surfaced and she knew who she really was.Yes, it suggests the memory wipe either did not happen or was incomplete. Doubtful they would ever do a complete wipe because you still need basic stuff like language skills, how to perform simple body movements, etc. They have to choose how much to leave and apparently they left the Allison memories. Either that or the memory wipe process is imperfect. Like on my computer, when I "delete" a file, it is still on the disk but its name has been removed from the file system table of contents, so it cannot be easily found. Eventually, when the disk gets slowly filled up, that part of the disk will get overwritten and the file will be gone. Until then, it could still pop up on a thorough disk search. i choose to believe that Cam was captured when she tried to infiltrate Resistance HQ. Then she was given a standard memory wipe and reprogrammed to follow future John's orders. The memory wipe was either imperfect or incomplete so the Allison memories were still there, and they bubbled up somehow during Allison from Palmdale. Do you find this valuable? |
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I.Join |
18. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Oct 15 2010, 11:09 AM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 15 2010, 11:11 AM EDT
"Yes, it suggests the memory wipe either did not happen or was incomplete.Allison's data were not memories, not like the memories of what Cameron did. They were data... However, in s02e20 it seems she recovered (part of) her memories too (she remembered she interrogated Derek and he talked), so it's highly probable the resistance was using a not very good process to wipe the memories. More, I think what happened in s02e01 is some part of memories and directives coming back, cause the hard-reset needed after the explosion. I don't think she decided to join the resistance: even if she did, why should they have trusted her? Anyway, Allison's memories are not the key, since they came back after, and since Cameron only knew a sad Alli, but she appeared happy with Jody, and she didn't recognized her target in front of her (even if a target to kill or to protect). The HDD comparison is good and obvious: some memories (like flash memories, which degrades while rewriting them) includes in hardware a system to ever write new data on more used blocks, so a data, even if deleted, is not overwritten until all the other blocks have been used the same number of times. Do you find this valuable? |
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termi-ninja-tor |
19. RE: Ghost in the machine,where does cameron stop and allison begin?
Oct 17 2010, 4:10 PM EDT
"I don't think she decided to join the resistance: even if she did, why should they have trusted her?"Cameron told Allison during the interrogation that Cameron was among the group of terminators who did not want the war and that she wanted to talk to John Connor about joining forces. Obviously, Allison did not believe her. But Cameron seemed to feel strongly that lying was bad. It appeared that was one of the reasons why she killed Allison later, after Allison had lied to her about the bracelets. So maybe Cameron was telling the truth about wanting peace. Or maybe she killed Allison because Allison's usefulness to her was over. (This is less likely because it was not standard procedure for Third Faction terminators to kill humans unless the humans were obstructing their goals, like Tuck or Nelson.) Either way, whether Cameron was telling the truth and she was Third Faction looking to explore joining the Resistance, or Cameron was lying and still working for Skynet at that time, Cameron must have attempted to infiltrate Resistance HQ after killing Allison. She was then caught and reprogrammed. The smart thing for the Resistance to do would be to reprogram Cam no matter what she says about being against the war or whatever. After she is reprogrammed, she can be used for various tasks. Cameron's post-reprogramming position was apparently to be John Connor's close second, as we saw in Today Is the Day Part 2. As Dietz mentioned, such reprogrammed terminators were often assigned positions of responsibility in the Resistance command structure, like Commander Queeg was the sub captain. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |