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Discussion: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?Reported This is a featured thread

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trigger_happy14
trigger_happy14
How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 25 2010, 11:33 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 25 2010, 11:33 PM EST
I was watching Samson and Delilah with the commentary on the other day and JF mentioned his real intentions for the 10th episode was basically to have Cameron crawling to the Connors the entire episode to save them.

It got me thinking... How different would T:SCC have been if there wasn't a writer's strike?

Obviously the whole "Cameron goes bad" thing wasn't in the original plans and I can't imagine how different Season 2 as a whole would've been without S&D happening.

Would T:SCC still be on right now if it weren't for the writer's strike? Who knows.

What do you guys think?
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ScotWithOne_t
ScotWithOne_t
1. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 25 2010, 11:38 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 25 2010, 11:38 PM EST
We would have gotten to see Morris hook up with Cameron at the prom, and we would have found out what was up with that Cheri broad's parents. We may have actually found out what happened with Derek in that house in the future too. Do you find this valuable?    
trigger_happy14
trigger_happy14
2. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 25 2010, 11:41 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 25 2010, 11:41 PM EST
So maybe T:SCC wouldn't have gotten as dark/depressing as it did? :P

I wasn't that sad about never finding out about Cheri, but the prom date with Morris and Cameron would've been COMEDY GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, I just heard that Godfather made a thread about this same subject awhile back. Sorry, If this is a repeat! I wasn't around on the Red Wiki for a long time after the cancellation and I probably missed it.
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Dr._Allison_Cameron
Dr._Allison_Cameron
3. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 26 2010, 10:04 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 10:04 AM EST
The Turk 2 into John Henry plotline was already begun, with Sarkissian blowing up the jeep, so I would guess they would have kept the Weaver, Savannah, John Henry, Ellison arc. I would have let John Henry become Skynet, instead of what they did, which was use him as a fake-out to throw off us story analysts.

As SWOt noted, they would have continued with Cheri and Morris.

My sense with Season 1 was that the action plotting was stronger. Like, Season 2 ran out of action ideas so it filled in with diversions like Riley and crazy Sarah. For continuing action, they reached for a quick and dirty plot device -- the bloody wall and the terminator-of-the-week.

Instead, I would have preferred to take the "high road," where the Connors are more overtly pursuing Skynet while they themselves are pursued by one or more terminators.

There would be no Riley and no Jesse, as well as no bloody wall.

John would develop in a more obviously linear fashion, showing more maturity and leadership as the season progresses.

Derek's whole purpose in the show would be to give John a strong male role model and teach him fighting skills. This was obvious, but somehow we completely lost it in Season 2.

John's relationship with Cameron would have improved rather than worsened as it did.

That's all I got right now, I'll think about it some more.

Oh, one other thought. Does anyone believe there could have been any lingering animosity against the striking writers that could have contributed to what happened in Season 2? I always wondered why they chose to give up so much of what was developed in Season 1 and start new stuff in Season 2.
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Losa78
Losa78
4. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 26 2010, 3:43 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 3:43 PM EST
I just wanted to say I agree 100% with Scot and Dr_Allison_Cameron. Good posts, people.

The more I think about what could have been, the sadder I get. Season 1 was in fact much more compelling, interesting and tight than season 2, specially after Cromartie was killed off and Riley and Jesse were brought into the scene.

About Dr_Allison's last question, I don't even want to consider the possibility of it being true. I see people as professional until proven otherwise. That would be way too lame. I don't see a writer underperforming on purpose at his work and career just as some sort of revanche against fans or developers or whatever. Maybe I'm being too innocent on this, but I just don't see it. No.
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trigger_happy14
trigger_happy14
5. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 26 2010, 4:21 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 4:21 PM EST
Honestly, I still think S2 was stronger in the character aspect than S1 ever was, but I still really wish that the writer's strike never happened.

I mean, they had every right to go on strike, that's not what I'm saying.

I mean, if Season 1 got all 13 episodes and possibly got picked up for the full 22 where would we be now?

I think it'd be a completely different show! Honestly, I think we may have never been canceled...

Dr_Allison_Cameron brings up a lot of good points. I think the biggest thing we would've gotten was a more streamlined plot.

I have a feeling Riley and Jesse would've still made their ways into the plot somehow, but I think it would've been handled better without FOX butting their way in and screwing up the pacing.

I bet Derek would've gotten the screen time he deserved. I hated how the writer's killed him off only to "bring him back" in Born to Run. It's NOT THE SAME DEREK dangit!
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trigger_happy14
trigger_happy14
6. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 26 2010, 4:23 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 4:23 PM EST
OH and as for the bloody wall plot device and the stand alone episodes...

Those were obviously put in to appease FOX, but they DIDN'T WORK. No matter how many stand alone episodes there were in S2 you still NEEDED to know what was going on in the rest of the season to understand everything.

Other shows are totally connected episode by episode and do perfectly fine. Look at Lost!

I feel like we would never have had that feeling of going no where if they didn't go in a completely different direction in S2.
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MaximusPrime
7. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 26 2010, 7:59 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 7:59 PM EST
I think the writer's strike hurt TSCC in so many unmeasurable ways that you can only say what if. However, it is my firm belief that definitely would have had a much better chance at building and retaining an audience. The show had settled in around 8.5 to 9 million at the last episode of S1 and showed signs of the audience beginning to grow. Much has been said about the decline from the original 14 million audience, but that number was never sustainable being that it was right after the Super Bowl. I think 9 million during the strike when most people had given up on TV altogether is actually pretty good. With no strike who knows where that number would have actually been. I think we could have done at least as good as good or better as where Fringe is now. However, the strike is not the only thing affecting TSCC ratings. We never had the strong lead in from 24 that was originally intended had not Kieffer Southerland had his legal issues. That also factors into the equation as well as the move from the original Tuesday schedule to Mondays. I don't think Scifi is sustainable on Monday's. I think Tuesday or Thursday are a better schedule to build a Scifi audience. As far as storyline goes, the strike definitely affected the direction of S2. As previously mentioned, Cameron was not supposed to go bad that early. Remember, episode 9 would have been just mid-season on a normal season. I think they still would have had something occur to have Cameron go bad at the end of S1, but the build up would have been much more gradual thus her going bad would have been even more intense. Also, we definitely would have had a pay off to the Cheri and Morris plot lines. In fact, I wager there would have been no Riley because most likely Cheri was to have been in that position by end of S1 which would have made more sense to fans. Instead Riley was introduced rather abruptly which many fans did not like. Do you find this valuable?    
MMM.MIND
MMM.MIND
8. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 26 2010, 8:16 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 8:16 PM EST
"I think the writer's strike hurt TSCC in so many unmeasurable ways that you can only say what if. However, it is my firm belief that definitely would have had a much better chance at building and retaining an audience. The show had"
You are right my friend

strike hurt TSCC in so many unmeasurable ways that you can only say what if...

TSCC budget is not enough for great special effects like Terminator Salvation... TSCC need great writer´s work to be a great TV Show.

I am pretty sure TSCC without writer's strike would had a much better rating ( Maybe a 3 season, 65% sure)

Bad advertisment damage TSCC too... TSCC was sale like 24 terminator version, no true... TSCC is a great Drama TV Show no another silly action TV Show....

It is really sad that a good TV Show for your mind and soul like TSCC was cancel... a TV Show about family, never surrender, fight for a good cause....
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MMM.MIND
MMM.MIND
9. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 30 2010, 6:28 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 30 2010, 6:28 PM EST
Bump

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Dr._Allison_Cameron
Dr._Allison_Cameron
10. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 31 2010, 3:54 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2010, 3:54 PM EST
It seemed to me that Season 2 developed very disobligingly. I mean, viewers did not get what they expected. Deliberately so. (Forgive me for generalizing, but I believe I am reflecting general views.)

Many viewers would have preferred a stronger John, but instead he was emo for most of the season.

Many viewers would have preferred an improving relationship between John and Cam, and of course it worsened instead.

Many viewers would have liked to see Sarah stay strong and focused clearly on pursuing Skynet and avoiding terminators.But we got a significant detour at mid season.

Many viewers expected that Turk 2 would turn into Skynet instead of John Henry and that Weaver would prove to be an antagonist, especially after she took out Desert Canyon Heat and Air.

And probably no one expected the ending we saw in Born to Run.

I think this was deliberate. I think it must have been obvious what the viewers expected, and the writers deliberately took different paths for some reason. Maybe to show off their creativity. Or maybe in some belief that you should always keep'em guessing -- that predictability is a bad thing. I don't know.

But I wonder if this commitment to avoiding predictability hurt the ratings? I mean, to a certain degree, people watch shows so they can see how things that they expect to happen do happen. Like I expect Cam to have to fight a hostile terminator every once in a while, and I am happy to watch it when it happens.

I expect John to man up and get more mature with his experiences, but it does not happen and I am turned off. I bet there must have been viewers who were disgusted at John and stopped watching.

And when Sarah went to the UFO convention and started hallucinating, I would think more viewers decided to stop watching.

I think it is a good idea to give the viewers more of what they want instead of disappointing them.
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termi-ninja-tor
termi-ninja-tor
11. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 31 2010, 4:17 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2010, 4:17 PM EST
Personally, I like the "logical surprise," which is difficult to pull off.

For example, Richie's arc in the Sopranos ended with his being shot by his wife, Janice, who was also Tony's sister.

Richie is portrayed as a mean, selfish, vulgar mobster, someone who would beat up an innocent guy just for kicks. We develop the impression that he marries Janice in part to improve his stature in the Sopranos organization.

Janice is portrayed as intensely immersed in women's issues, a la the women's lib movement in the 1960s. And she is shown to be a little nuts, with a short fuse too. During their courtship, Richie conceals his coarse nature and acts like a gentleman.

Some time after they get married, Richie hits Janice after he has a tough day. They get into an argument about dinner and he hits her in the mouth. Janice runs upstairs, gets a gun, and shoots Richie dead in the kitchen.

This was a shocker, but it was perfectly in character, perfectly logical. What a beautifully crafted arc with the most intuitively understandable end. A "logical surprise." After getting over the shock of it, I thought to myself, "Gee, that's really the only way it could have ended, a logical outcome for both Janice and Richie."

Now, that's what I call good writing
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MetalHunter
MetalHunter
12. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 31 2010, 4:27 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2010, 4:27 PM EST
"Personally, I like the "logical surprise," which is difficult to pull off.

For example, Richie's arc in the Sopranos ended with his being shot by his wife, Janice, who was also Tony's sister.

Richie is portrayed as a mean, selfish, vulgar mobster, someone who would beat up an innocent guy just for kicks. We develop the impression that he marries Janice in part to improve his stature in the Sopranos organization.

Janice is portrayed as intensely immersed in women's issues, a la the women's lib movement in the 1960s. And she is shown to be a little nuts, with a short fuse too. During their courtship, Richie conceals his coarse nature and acts like a gentleman.

Some time after they get married, Richie hits Janice after he has a tough day. They get into an argument about dinner and he hits her in the mouth. Janice runs upstairs, gets a gun, and shoots Richie dead in the kitchen.

This was a shocker, but it was perfectly in character, perfectly logical. What a beautifully crafted arc with the most intuitively understandable end. A "logical surprise." After getting over the shock of it, I thought to myself, "Gee, that's really the only way it could have ended, a logical outcome for both Janice and Richie."

Now, that's what I call good writing"
And a completely retarded, sexually handicapped girly-boy and his mother, a crazy woman, you think they will be Saviors of Mankind? It's logical result or a insult for your and our intelligence?
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meanoldmoe
meanoldmoe
13. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 31 2010, 4:42 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2010, 4:42 PM EST
yeah poor Richie.....the best was when he looked at her and asked her if she was going to cry, she flips out and blasts him.
Wasn't it Richie that gave Tony that leather jacket? the one tony didn't want to wear?....lol.
Back to TSCC

The writers strike was a huge blow to the show, and I feel it did major damage to the show.
If the show had gone a full season, and then the strike happened, things would have been much different!!
I think there would have been more time to develop Cam and John's relationship, for one.
Cheri might have become more important in the story line, as in her family may have been part of something to do with Skynet, or one of it's companies.
Cheri would have been a better one to use for a love interest, as John had already taken interest in her.
Morris and Cam as prom dates , coulda woulda been priceless !!
A full season one might have lead to a vastly different S2, maybe better, maybe worse, but most likely not the one we got !!
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trigger_happy14
trigger_happy14
14. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 31 2010, 4:53 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2010, 4:53 PM EST
"Dr.'s Post"
You bring up a lot of good points, and yes, to the average viewer a lot of what you mentioned would turn them away.

I think the only ones that really could appreciate some of the more "out there" things they did in S2 were the hardcore fans and even we weren't that happy about it half the time.

I wanted stuff to happen, and it never did. I mentioned a few times that when I rewatched S2 I enjoyed it much more because I thought of it as the "character" season. S2 is all about characters and ideas not necessarily about plot.

S2 was just too "weird" for the average viewer. I've heard it time and time again from friends and family.

For example, the Terminator movies were popular because they balanced the hardcore sci-fi aspects with enough drama and action that it was able to appeal to a lot of people.

More recently, Avatar did the same thing by balancing it's sci fi aspects with amazing visuals and a familiar story.

I think S2 was missing that balance. I still consider it to be stronger than S1 in a lot of ways, but in terms of gaining an audience it failed.
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MMM.MIND
MMM.MIND
15. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 31 2010, 4:54 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2010, 4:54 PM EST
"It seemed to me that Season 2 developed very disobligingly. I mean, viewers did not get what they expected. Deliberately so. (Forgive me for generalizing, but I believe I am reflecting general views.)

I think it is a good idea to give the viewers more of what they want instead of disappointing them."
I love TSCC

However

TSCC is like a great book with a few bad chapters..

About 70% is jus great but 30% of the episodes are slow or just bad..

I am not perfect
TSCC Writers are not perfect

About ratings... It is hard... TSCC is a great plot sci fi Show in a TV World full of crap TV.....

TSCC with more action and a plot more easy to fallow for general public + a budget cut (make it in Canada).. Could be a hit....

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Dr._Allison_Cameron
Dr._Allison_Cameron
16. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 31 2010, 4:56 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2010, 4:56 PM EST
Does anyone believe that what happened in Season 2 was the original plan for the show? (I don't think so.)

If not, then why in heaven's name did they decide to change the story? Why couldn't they have just continued with what they wanted to do before? Why throw away all that Season 1 development and start new?

Was it because some of the actors were no longer available? Like Christina Apgar (Cheri) and Luis Chavez (Morris) weren't available anymore?

Was there another reason?
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MetalHunter
MetalHunter
17. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 31 2010, 5:17 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2010, 5:18 PM EST
"Does anyone believe that what happened in Season 2 was the original plan for the show? (I don't think so.)

If not, then why in heaven's name did they decide to change the story? Why couldn't they have just continued with what they wanted to do before? Why throw away all that Season 1 development and start new?

Was it because some of the actors were no longer available? Like Christina Apgar (Cheri) and Luis Chavez (Morris) weren't available anymore?

Was there another reason?"
Yep! You known the truth: the TPTB decided that John need a "human girlfriend" and John to become more "friendly" for teenagers masses...

They missed something: that's Terminator, NOT Idiocracy!
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meanoldmoe
meanoldmoe
18. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 31 2010, 5:26 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2010, 5:26 PM EST
I think Cheri would have made a better GF for John, mostly because of the mystery shrouded around her.
Morris would have supplied some much needed comic relief to the show...as in his lusting after Cameron.
Riley may have been a key element to S2, but , the Cheri mystery, to me, would have been much better.
And like I said before, an expanded S1 would have had Cam and John become closer too !!

S2 seems to have been something totally different from S1, maybe because it could have(should have) been S3 ?
I just get the feeling they skipped allot of stuff from S1 to S2, somehow things were wiped and started fresh.
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trigger_happy14
trigger_happy14
19. RE: How would T:SCC have been if it there was NO Writer's Strike?
Jan 31 2010, 5:34 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2010, 5:34 PM EST
"Does anyone believe that what happened in Season 2 was the original plan for the show? (I don't think so.)

If not, then why in heaven's name did they decide to change the story? Why couldn't they have just continued with what they wanted to do before? Why throw away all that Season 1 development and start new?

Was it because some of the actors were no longer available? Like Christina Apgar (Cheri) and Luis Chavez (Morris) weren't available anymore?

Was there another reason?"
Yah, know, I really don't know why they decided to throw away everything they did in S1. O_O

The main reason I seem to be getting is that S2 was a complete reboot and redirection. I dunno if they thought this would bring it better ratings, but they basically wanted to make it so that anyone that saw S2 without seeing S2 wouldn't be confused.

It still doesn't explain why they decided to throw away EVERYTHING. I mean the tone of S2 is just much darker and the direction is way different.

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