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Jenkehs
Jenkehs
~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 1:27 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 13 2009, 12:31 PM EST
This thread is for THE PEOPLE, so that their voices may be heard!!

Please use this thread as a source for all the questions you may have regarding the changes,
rules, who got banned/why, or points you wish to present to mangement for consideration.
We will do our best to answer these questions as promptly as we can, or will direct them to the Admins for feedback.
This will also be a great aid for myself, on keeping up with what is going on, since it's hard to be everywhere all the time.

Every member's opinion matters! Every voice should be heard and respectfully answered!

Please keep this thread constructive, and be respectful with healthy debates, without bashing!
Let's aim for open communication and strive for a more unified management!!

FIX THE PROBLEMS ~ TAKE BACK THE WiKi!!


Jenkehs / athena98501 / sarahwannabe
To meet that goal, we can...

1) Temporarily lock threads when it seems they are getting heated... but NOT delete them.

2) For threads of questionable violations of the CoC... lock them, with a message. Then it is open to appeal to the moderators if it should be deleted at a later time. So that threads have not just disappeared.

3) Warnings via PM for violations of the CoC... no immediate bans... with the exception of accounts that are created for trolling.

4) Notifications on why a post was deleted... (keep in mind that sometimes subsequent posts are deleted when they quote the questionable post... if there is relevant content in the post a request to edit the post might be appropriate).
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Schmacky
Schmacky
1. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 2:13 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 2:13 AM EST
I honestly don't know the real reasons for the divide and the bannings. What I do know is that this wiki has gone down (even more than what it was, if that's possible) in the eyes of a LOT of SCC fans.

I hope that the Mods and Admins have a clear understanding of what happened and more importantly, why it happened so that they can fix the problem. Because ultimately, the fate of the wiki rests in the Mods. If mods are crappy, a wiki will be crappy. To a degree, they're "leaders" and if their people don't A) respect them or B) take them seriously or C) trust them.. then they need to re-evaluate how they're handling the issues. Because something is obviously terribly wrong. And it's not the people's "fault" but that of the "leaders."
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Jenkehs
Jenkehs
2. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 2:28 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 2:28 AM EST
Yes Schmacky, I agree with you!! taking a step-back and re-evaluating is what I have been doing for the past two days,
because I felt something was wrong because it's been getting worse. And with the recent loss of a Leader, the remainder
of us are trying our best to be more unified.

I created this thread in hopes of accomplishing that . . in trying to save this wiki.

The one thing that upset everyone was the deletion of threads without explanation; it made them
feel like their opinions didn't matter and that they weren't being heard. I feel there should be a
healthy outlet for that.
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Alexsw
Alexsw
3. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 2:34 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 2:34 AM EST
Count me in!
I'll do what I can... for a better wiki...

@ Schmacky: "this wiki has gone down (even more than what it was, if that's possible) in the eyes of a LOT of SCC fans"
Let's call them to join! Running is no option. If something p*sses you off, change it! Try it at last!
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Schmacky
Schmacky
4. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 2:36 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 2:36 AM EST
Yeah. I think it's a terrible mistake when threads are deleted or locked without an explained reason as to why.

If it's a good thread with good discussion and then it gets hijacked by a fight for a bit.. I can understand locking it for a day or something to allow people to cool off. But flat out deleting it and ignoring PMs of folks wanting answers is just absolutely wrong. It makes people not want to be here. And we can obviously see that's happened already.
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Schmacky
Schmacky
5. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 2:38 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 2:38 AM EST
"@ Schmacky: "this wiki has gone down (even more than what it was, if that's possible) in the eyes of a LOT of SCC fans"
Let's call them to join! Running is no option. If something p*sses you off, change it! Try it at last!"
Well.. to be fair. The people that left didn't just run off. They had tried. Multiple times. They just finally had enough.
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Jenkehs
Jenkehs
6. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 2:41 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 2:41 AM EST
Those are changes we are aiming to make from now on; to always post why a thread is to be deleted or locked.
And I also feel there should be ONE place to post about ban's, so the community understands what happened.

I could use your help Schmacky, if you're willing, to keep this thread going in a constructive manner, in hopes
of attaining our goals!!

Thanks for your suppport Alex! :)
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Schmacky
Schmacky
7. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 2:46 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 2:48 AM EST
OK so I'll start off with a question in regards to banning.

A few people have been banned because of profanity. This I do not understand. There is the filter. So what's the issue?

And who cares about profanity anyway? This is a Terminator wiki, an audience rating of Mature, at minimum a TV-14... I think we're all mature enough to handle certain words. Some words are even used by the show.. b*tch, ass, damn, hell. If this show was on HBO you KNOW they'd be saying more than that.
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Alexsw
Alexsw
8. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 2:52 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 2:52 AM EST
"Well.. to be fair. The people that left didn't just run off. They had tried. Multiple times. They just finally had enough."
No decision has to be final and I hope, no I think things will change.
You should know best Schmacky, we need all of us (TSCC fans) to achieve something regarding the chance of renewal.
Well, that's my no. 1 reason to fight for this wiki. No. 2 is that I cannot bear iniquities.
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Jenkehs
Jenkehs
9. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 2:53 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 2:53 AM EST
@Schmacky~ the filter isn't working properly; only certain words are entered into it . . minor words like, damn and hell.
After the filter was introduced, members protested and started using the F-word like crazy, and in negative contexts.
Some members were offended when they were told F/U! in a nasty way . . so Admins decided to reinforce the CofC
by preventing the use of profanity; however, some members refused to do so and still used the F-word, even after
receiving several warnings not to do so. These are the ones who were then banned instantly. And to my knowledge,
I only know of two so far . . .Censorship is a very touchy subject for some now.
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Schmacky
Schmacky
10. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 2:54 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 2:54 AM EST
"No decision has to be final and I hope, no I think things will change.
You should know best Schmacky, we need all of us (TSCC fans) to achieve something regarding the chance of renewal.
Well, that's my no. 1 reason to fight for this wiki. No. 2 is that I cannot bear iniquities."
Sure, we do need all SCC fans to achieve our goal. But, in all honestly, that doesn't mean they need to be from the same place.
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Schmacky
Schmacky
11. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 2:57 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 2:57 AM EST
Profanity in an insult is one thing. It's an insult. Which, though I am so very guilty of doing it, is not the greatest thing to partake in. Profanity in the use of emphasis or whatever else, should, I think, be fine.

Examples:

SCC rocks!
SCC ******* rocks!

Is the second really that bad? I mean, seriously... it's sad.
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Jenkehs
Jenkehs
12. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 3:01 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 3:01 AM EST
"Profanity in an insult is one thing. It's an insult. Which, though I am so very guilty of doing it, is not the greatest thing to partake in. Profanity in the use of emphasis or whatever else, should, I think, be fine.

Examples:

SCC rocks!
SCC ******* rocks!

Is the second really that bad? I mean, seriously... it's sad."
Yeah, I hear you! But just have to go along with it; it's a rule being enforced.
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Alexsw
Alexsw
13. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 3:09 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 3:09 AM EST
"Sure, we do need all SCC fans to achieve our goal. But, in all honestly, that doesn't mean they need to be from the same place. "
Yes and no, because many people being in one place have a louder voice!
Anyway, let's make this one a better place NOW.
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MetalShifter
MetalShifter
14. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 3:10 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 3:11 AM EST
I am from Austria and a lot of people here are not from the USA too.
This should be THE international Wiki for fans of TSCC.
This kind of censorship exists only in the USA! I know other Wikis of Europe, where it is no problem to say that something is complete bullsh*t or f*cking st*pid. Despite of some explicit words the far bigger problem is that even serious critics are sometimes censored or deleted, which is a problem too.

So where is the reason we don't run this Wiki like a true "free Wiki", because the members make the wiki and not the "upper management".

BTW: I haven't seen any real "hardcore members", that try to start a useless flamewar just for the sake of fun or something like that for a long time ...

-MS
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Schmacky
Schmacky
15. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 3:10 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 3:10 AM EST
"Yeah, I hear you! But just have to go along with it; it's a rule being enforced."
In all honesty, I probably won't go along with it. I haven't since the day I started this wiki and continue to have a sailor's... typing fingers, I guess. I use profanity.. so what? Have I really offended people that much with it? Has it stopped me from being a fan of this show? Participating in thoughtful threads? Working to campaign for its revival? No... it hasn't.

IMO, it's a stupid rule being enforced. Pick your battles, Mods. Is this one honestly worth it? If your answer is yes, well then... hah, OK.
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Jenkehs
Jenkehs
16. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 3:16 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 3:16 AM EST
@Schmacky~ understood, point noted. Do you find this valuable?    
Schmacky
Schmacky
17. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 3:18 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 3:18 AM EST
"I am from Austria and a lot of people here are not from the USA too.
This should be THE international Wiki for fans of TSCC.
This kind of censorship exists only in the USA! I know other Wikis of Europe, where it is no problem to say that something is complete bullsh*t or f*cking st*pid. "
That is an excellent point.
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rref
rref
18. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 3:26 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 3:26 AM EST
"I honestly don't know the real reasons for the divide and the bannings. What I do know is that this wiki has gone down (even more than what it was, if that's possible) in the eyes of a LOT of SCC fans.

I hope that the Mods and Admins have a clear understanding of what happened and more importantly, why it happened so that they can fix the problem. Because ultimately, the fate of the wiki rests in the Mods. If mods are crappy, a wiki will be crappy. To a degree, they're "leaders" and if their people don't A) respect them or B) take them seriously or C) trust them.. then they need to re-evaluate how they're handling the issues. Because something is obviously terribly wrong. And it's not the people's "fault" but that of the "leaders.""
I agree completely and I think this thread is a very promising start. Lack of communication between and amongst the members, mods, and admins is largely responsible for the recent evacuation. A close relative of that problem is the forbiddance of talking about their issues and concerns in an open discussion. Up until this thread, members haven't even been allowed to talk to each other about how collectively, they should proceed to resolve their issues. Of course nothing constructive will result, there's no environment for it. It's a wiki, the bulk of its content is provided by its members not its administration, and the members have a sense of ownership over their work. If a page or thread gets deleted and nobody is allowed to talk about it, what is left for a member to do at this point than to either be sore about it or leave? If enough members aren't happy, obviously something is wrong with the way things are being run. That's the case in this place and in this situation, its the Admin's role to seriously look at the problem and find a way to resolve it whether the cause is the mod staff, the policies, or even the admin herself.
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rref
rref
19. RE: ~ Members Questions & Concerns for Moderators ~
Nov 12 2009, 3:30 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2009, 3:30 AM EST
"Count me in!
I'll do what I can... for a better wiki...

@ Schmacky: "this wiki has gone down (even more than what it was, if that's possible) in the eyes of a LOT of SCC fans"
Let's call them to join! Running is no option. If something p*sses you off, change it! Try it at last!"
Causing a ruckus isn't the way it should be done. That actually works against you. If members want something changed, they need to be organized if they want to be taken seriously.

For example, can you answer these questions?
What is it explicitly, that everyone wants? Can you make a list? How might we, as regular members, go about attaining these these things? Who should we speak with, and how to we go about doing that?
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