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NedLudd
NedLudd
could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 7:45 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 7:45 AM EDT
my last threads were vague

it was deliberate

this ones more specific

could ai share the bonds of a functional family Do you find this valuable?    
Keyword tags: None
ScotWithOne_t
ScotWithOne_t
1. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 8:40 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 8:40 AM EDT
"
could ai share the bonds of a functional family"
Negative.

This family is largely dysfunctional. Do you find this valuable?    
Munter
Munter
2. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 8:55 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 8:55 AM EDT
That depends on how advanced the AI is.

Also if the AI is read/write mode or read only mode.

, Do you find this valuable?    
Gulde
Gulde
3. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 9:14 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 9:15 AM EDT
I swear, sometimes I really wish that all my familly members should be AIs, that I could be able to reprogram at any time ^^ Do you find this valuable?    
Zkyire
Zkyire
4. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 10:04 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 10:04 AM EDT
"my last threads were vague

it was deliberate

this ones more specific

could ai share the bonds of a functional family"
Define 'functional'. Do you find this valuable?    
termi-ninja-tor
termi-ninja-tor
5. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 10:58 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 11:13 AM EDT
Interpreted simply, the term "family" implies a biological connection.

But now we include adopted children, so the connection becomes the social association.

And how about your beloved pet dog? Who has been "part of your family for years"?

What about other pets, like birds, fish, etc? Are they all part of your family?

Can I adopt an AI? Or does it enjoy the status of the family dog, i.e., owned property? Or is it more like the family minivan?

The semantics become important. Do you find this valuable?    
NedLudd
NedLudd
6. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 11:47 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 11:47 AM EDT
"Define 'functional'."
nope Do you find this valuable?    
Gusar
Gusar
7. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 11:55 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 11:55 AM EDT
"The semantics become important."
I like Joss Whedon's take on it: "Family are the people who treat you like family."

Now, a problem becomes how much an AI is "people"... so we're not free of semantics yet. However, I say someone like Cameron or Catherine are individual entities, with their own personalities, and as such qualify as "people". So yeah, an AI is part of your family, if you treat it as such. Do you find this valuable?    
triple8parts&repair
triple8parts&repair
8. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 1:20 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 1:20 PM EDT
I think that Termi and Gusar's reference to semantics is key to this conversation. The lack of a prior established understanding and agreement on the definition of terms leads to miscomunication, misunderstanding and futility. Terms like person, personality, family, AI, freewill, determinism,
programed, self-conciousness, etc., if understood differently by different people leads to confusion and frustration.
Also, the declared distinction between what exists in Science Fiction and what exists in the real world is important.
Some folks have already projected a fantasy bond between themselves (being real) and a fictional cyborg (not real), which certainly can work
because it exists only in the mind,,,it is imaginary. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking anyone's freedom to do so. We all, as far as I know,
fantasize at times. But I think the line between what is fiction and what is real is often blurred in these discussions.
(just thinking out loud)
Do you find this valuable?    
termi-ninja-tor
termi-ninja-tor
9. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 1:24 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 1:24 PM EDT
"So yeah, an AI is part of your family, if you treat it as such."
So basically, lacking a precise definition of terms from the OP, we are free to draw our own line as to what constitutes family.

In that case, my answer to the OP is "yes," an AI could be part of my family. Especially Cameron (heh). Do you find this valuable?    
NedLudd
NedLudd
10. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 1:31 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 1:31 PM EDT
"So basically, lacking a precise definition of terms from the OP, we are free to draw our own line as to what constitutes family."
yes

except that i said functional Do you find this valuable?    
termi-ninja-tor
termi-ninja-tor
11. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 1:38 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 1:38 PM EDT
"yes

except that i said functional"
But you refused to define functional. Do you find this valuable?    
NedLudd
NedLudd
12. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 1:51 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 1:51 PM EDT
"But you refused to define functional."
right Do you find this valuable?    
ninelives888
ninelives888
13. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 1:54 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 1:54 PM EDT
i would have Cameron wash and wax my car every day, do the laundry, walk the dogs and pick up their messes. Clean the house and liberate funds non violently from a ATM. So does slave constitute being in a functional family ? 0  out of 8 found this valuable. Do you?    
Gusar
Gusar
14. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 2:01 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 2:01 PM EDT
"i would have Cameron wash and wax my car every day, do the laundry, walk the dogs and pick up their messes. Clean the house and liberate funds non violently from a ATM. So does slave constitute being in a functional family ?"
So you admit *you* are the one with the cyborg fantasies and not all the people you accuse of having them.

(flame-bait of the century...) 6  out of 6 found this valuable. Do you?    
MetalHunter
MetalHunter
15. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 2:12 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 2:12 PM EDT
"i would have Cameron wash and wax my car every day, do the laundry, walk the dogs and pick up their messes. Clean the house and liberate funds non violently from a ATM. So does slave constitute being in a functional family ?"
Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! So, Notty... Your secret dream is to have a Cammy slave?

Bad boy! Very bad boy! :P 6  out of 6 found this valuable. Do you?    
Munter
Munter
16. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 3:53 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 3:53 PM EDT
"So you admit *you* are the one with the cyborg fantasies and not all the people you accuse of having them.

(flame-bait of the century...)"
Hmmmmm.

A very interesting turn of events. You know, I always thought Notty doth protest too much.

. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

Sully889
17. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 18 2009, 4:12 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 18 2009, 4:12 PM EDT
No, it would probably realize how idiotic we act so it would leave. So I'm with Scot on this one. Do you find this valuable?    

KrelleK
18. RE: could ai be part of your family
Aug 19 2009, 6:53 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 19 2009, 6:53 PM EDT
"No, it would probably realize how idiotic we act so it would leave. So I'm with Scot on this one."
I do believe we could one day end up with and AI in the familly, I would not mind one, especially if she looked like Cammygirl, Do you find this valuable?    
TackDriver1956
TackDriver1956
19. RE: could ai be part of your family
Sep 4 2009, 11:18 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 4 2009, 11:18 AM EDT
"Interpreted simply, the term "family" implies a biological connection.

But now we include adopted children, so the connection becomes the social association.

And how about your beloved pet dog? Who has been "part of your family for years"?

What about other pets, like birds, fish, etc? Are they all part of your family?

Can I adopt an AI? Or does it enjoy the status of the family dog, i.e., owned property? Or is it more like the family minivan?

The semantics become important."
Functional? That's a subjective term. I would say YES, absolutely, an AI could be a family member, but not under our current legal framework. It would have no rights, except as spelled out in a contract.

Our dog is adopted by a legal contract, not purchased. The breeder retains certain rights, but the dog is a member of our family, makes her needs known, expresses her emotions. We respond to her needs, to a degree, and she ours, to a degree. There is a pack hierarchy, but we have that with children, too.

An AI, which in my understanding means something that passes the Turing test, would be easier to integrate than a dog. Intelligence means it's capable of learning, so I'm assuming it will learn its place in the hierarchy, recognize personalities of other family members, and tailor its behavior accordingly.

What role would an AI play in the family? That would probably depend on the family.
Would I let it give me a massage? Probably, if it was any good at it.

My wife is the one who would try to enslave it. Do you find this valuable?    
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