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Discussion: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity?

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R.Daneel_Olivaw	Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 6:25 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 7 2009, 6:25 PM EDT Remember John Connor talking about the Technological Singularity? If you don't, here is a link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Singularity If you are too lazy for links, it refers to a point where AI is advanced enough to create newer and more intelligent AIs. The point of this thread is to discuss wether Catherine Weaver, an experimental design by Skynet, is actually more intelligent than skynet itself. If so, and even more so if John Henry, her creation, is more intelligent than her, then perhaps she is the turning point that John Connor spoke about. Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: None
kaotic	1. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 6:30 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 7 2009, 6:30 PM EDT "Remember John Connor talking about the Technological Singularity? If you don't, here is a link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Singularity If you are too lazy for links, it refers to a point where AI is advanced enough to create newer and more intelligent AIs. The point of this thread is to discuss wether Catherine Weaver, an experimental design by Skynet, is actually more intelligent than skynet itself. If so, and even more so if John Henry, her creation, is more intelligent than her, then perhaps she is the turning point that John Connor spoke about." That's possible, in essence she did great another machine John Henry. -- I'll post more later, in the middle of working on something. :/ Post reply Do you find this valuable?
bleedmeanocean	2. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 6:34 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 7 2009, 6:34 PM EDT maybe, but how much did she really do?? I mean Mr. Murch, Ellison, and Dr. Sherman had just as much, if not more, to do with JH. Not to mention Cameron at the end....so does that make Cameron it? idk Post reply Do you find this valuable?
m1919	3. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 6:35 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 7 2009, 6:35 PM EDT Don't forget Andy Goode, he created the Turk. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
T169	4. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 6:37 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 7 2009, 6:37 PM EDT This is an intelligent and intriguing idea. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
bleedmeanocean	5. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 6:44 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 7 2009, 6:44 PM EDT but i guess she doesn't have to actually do everything herself, as long as it gets done. i guess when i envision something like that i think of the AI actually designing and building everything themselves. in our case, CW is basically just assembling the pieces together and using others to help. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
R.Daneel_Olivaw	6. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 9:11 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 7 2009, 9:11 PM EDT Well part of the question is could CW be more intelligent than skynet? If not, then perhaps John Henry could be the singularity. OK this is just really a bump. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Enigma6482	7. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 9:23 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 7 2009, 9:23 PM EDT Interesting point. I think JH would still be more of the singularity. They appeared to be setting him up as the "Anti-Skynet" and the only hope for humanity ever to win. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
m1919	8. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 9:23 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 7 2009, 9:31 PM EDT Then John Connor becomes moot. If he dies, it doesn't matter, another person would just take his place as a sort of 'representative' of JH so that the resistance wouldn't have to know all their tactics were originating from a machine. The way JH was described, made him make John Connor seem like a puppet. "Your John can't win the war without mine" Edit: That also makes Cameron's mission to protect John useless. What reason would she have to make sure he doesn't die? They way they portray JH's purpose, John Connor means nothing. Unless she's doing it for other reasons, but still, why? She didn't need to stick around with him after S&D, she no longer had a mission to protect him. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
wilson_low	9. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 9:24 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 7 2009, 9:24 PM EDT As far as possibilities go, I'm all for the idea. Am also working on exploring this side of things in a fanfic work-in-progress. I'm a big CW fan i guess, and lament the fact that TSCC writers didn't give us a third season to explore more of about she is, and is intending to achieve. However, it is important to note that CW was built for the purpose of terminating humans. IMHO, the nature of her singularity compelled her to initiate the John Henry project because she recognized the fact that she did not possess the requisite ethics and empathy - attributes that are essential for an anti-Skynet AI allied with humans. Of course, she demonstrates this time and again when she slices and dices people and interacts with Savannah (she does try to learn and improve somewhat herself though, and she deserves a pat on her polymimetic back for that). But of course, the main goal is developing JH (thus the slicing and dicing, and employing/coercing people - including Savannah - to help her do so)... 'nuff eaid. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
R.Daneel_Olivaw	10. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 9:26 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 7 2009, 9:26 PM EDT "Then John Connor becomes moot." More and more I have come to believe that TSCC intends Connor to become moot. It is actually what Sarah has been striving for, while prepare otherwise. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Enigma6482	11. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 11:47 PM EDT I don't think Connor would become a moot point. At least not at first, I know there are some that theorize that John may or may not be dead in the future and the resistance is actually being led by Cameron at that point. But that's besides the point. I think part of the strength to win a war against Skynet could be the fact that both John Connor and John Henry work together. Separately neither one may be strong enough to beat Skynet; however, by working together it may give them the edge they need to win. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
toasty2	12. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 7 2009, 11:52 PM EDT "both John Connor and John Henry work together. Separately neither one may be strong enough to beat Skynet; however, by working together it may give them the edge they need to win. " Exactly. Also lots of soldiers wouldn't want to take orders from a non-human. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Enigma6482	13. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 8 2009, 12:13 AM EDT "Exactly. Also lots of soldiers wouldn't want to take orders from a non-human." Also, true. But then again at least at one point in time most human soldiers are taking orders via Cameron anyways. I realize in actuality she may just be relaying orders but she is still giving them to a certain extent (at least the soldiers may feel this way, we know Jesse and a few others aboard the Jimmy Carter felt this way). But I also get the impression at least in Jesse's timeline that there was definitely an underlying resentment for both John and Cameron forming among John's troops based on the fact that John had come to rely on Cameron so much. Could this cause a possible rebellion against John Connor? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
t5000	14. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 8 2009, 12:58 AM EDT "Well part of the question is could CW be more intelligent than skynet? If not, then perhaps John Henry could be the singularity. " CW as portrayed on the show, is definitlely more intelligent than skynet. She is more open minded and her learning is in more areas than skynet. skynet is close minded ....tunnel vision, and is only interested in learning certain things, that will help it defeat the humans. I dont know about singularity, but Cw is the "key" to JH being built, and also the "key " to a rebelious faction of terminators that want something besides working mindlessly for skynet. she is also the "Key" to jh working against skynet and not against humans. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
t5000	15. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 8 2009, 1:11 AM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 8 2009, 1:11 AM EDT "More and more I have come to believe that TSCC intends Connor to become moot. It is actually what Sarah has been striving for, while prepare otherwise." he can never be ""moot", if he died in T-2, then humans probably would be wiped out. but now with all that has happened in tscc, he is not as essential to human survival, but he still knows more than any other human about skynet and terminators, and judgement day, and that is extremely important, to fighting skynet in present or after JD. Hence is cannot be moot. JH,Cameron and weaver changes things in his favor, and they are all sort of loyal to him and he has a working relationship with them , and they "trust "him. all that is very important. and as someone else said the humans after jd and even in present are more likely to follow john over a machine. also from T-1 kyle said john had a charisma that made people follow him and believe in him. he didnt show much of that in tscc which was a shame, he would need that. so even after all that has happened john is still important. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
SummerDream	16. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 8 2009, 2:21 AM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 8 2009, 2:21 AM EDT "CW as portrayed on the show, is definitlely more intelligent than skynet. She is more open minded and her learning is in more areas than skynet. skynet is close minded ....tunnel vision, and is only interested in learning certain things, that will help it defeat the humans. I dont know about singularity, but Cw is the "key" to JH being built, and also the "key " to a rebelious faction of terminators that want something besides working mindlessly for skynet. she is also the "Key" to jh working against skynet and not against humans." Skynet is already singularity. It is more clever than a million humans combined, possibly more so than all combined, but Weaver is more clever than Skynet. I think the younger fans here might well see the day when machines are smarter than the average human being, but not yet the day when they are more clever than all combined. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
R.Daneel_Olivaw	17. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 9 2009, 10:15 AM EDT "Skynet is already singularity. It is more clever than a million humans combined, possibly more so than all combined, but Weaver is more clever than Skynet. I think the younger fans here might well see the day when machines are smarter than the average human being, but not yet the day when they are more clever than all combined." The singularity is not about being smarter than humans, Its about AI creating more intelligent AI. Skynet was designed by humans, Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ResistanceFighter	18. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 9 2009, 10:34 AM EDT Interesting idea. Well, what if more than one singularities?Skynet produced the terminators, then went a step further and made the T1000s and Camerons model. So, a machine made smarter machines and then made even smarter machines. I am confusing myself now. Back to my corner. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
wilson_low	19. RE: Could Catherine Weaver be the singularity? Aug 9 2009, 12:22 PM EDT Catherine very likely self-evolved her sentience and awareness about what needed to be done to create John Henry. In essence, she IS the catalyst for the singularity called John Henry. She is a better machine than Skynet in the sense that she is mobile, adaptable, and can fend for her own survival under her own volition. Her desire to create and even better version of Skynet - John Henry - has to be the masterstroke though. She does not seem to get jealous at or compete with John Henry... so it can be safe to assume that she does not regard him as a threat, given that she has taken contingencies to ensure he develops empathy for all people - herself included. She seems to acknowledge her shortcomings though, such as her inability to relate to Savannah, her lack of emotions, and her propensity to kill anyone with no regard for morality or remorse. But it's truly beautiful and altruistic when she says that 'everything she does, she does for JH'. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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