Sign in or 
Location: Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles Discussion Forum
Discussion: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Category:
Discussion Forum /
Sarah Connor / Lena Headey
Share this|
Messsenger3 |
Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 1:44 PM EDT
First of all forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere; I came late to this show (after it was cancelled actually, which is really too bad – the character development is amazing in this show) and I have a question about Sarah’s inconsistencies. In the last 3 episodes of season 2, Sarah seems to flip back and forth in her convictions. In “To the Lighthouse,” she states emphatically to John that “people matter; they are all that matter.” Yet, just before that she tells John he shouldn’t trust Derek anymore. (The real zinger here is that John knew Derek was hiding something long before Sarah even got wind of it; way to go Johnny!) Also, throughout the series it is reinforced that she will be with him, yet she plans to leave him with Charley and yes I know it’s because she thinks she has cancer, but it is inconsistent. In “Adam raised a Cain” she tells Derek that he “keeps too many secrets for her taste.” A clear case of do as I say do, not as I do since she didn’t bother telling him or Cameron about going to see Charley. Another inconsistency. Did she honestly expect John to just stay with Charley and not contact Derek or Cameron? A really unbelievable inconsistency. Up until “To the Lighthouse” I really admired her character development but when she started acting like a damaged terminator herself, I had to say “Whoa, put the brakes on here; something isn’t right.” Does anyone have any thought as to why this occurred? Or can anyone direct me to a discussion that pertains to this inconsistency? 3 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you?
Keyword tags:
Sarah Connor
|
R.Daneel_Olivaw |
1. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 1:51 PM EDT
I think when it became clear that Derek could be led around by his wiener and Cameron couldn't carry a bird without killing it, Sarah decided she didn't want to leaver her son in their care when she died.I see it as a decision, good or bad, based on circumstances, not really inconsistent. 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
kaotic |
2. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 1:54 PM EDT
"I think when it became clear that Derek could be led around by his wiener and Cameron couldn't carry a bird without killing it, Sarah decided she didn't want to leaver her son in their care when she died.This. But Cameron killing birds is understandable, so is Derek being led around by his wiener... He's a guy for fuck sakes. :/ 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
Accept |
3. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 2:03 PM EDT
| Post edited: Aug 1 2009, 2:04 PM EDT
I don't think she was inconsistent at all. Sarah wanted to kill Cameron, she had seen enough REAL INCONSISTENT behavior from Tin Miss and told her so, it was only because John would not have understood that she chose not to. Remember Sarah is the one , the only one who witnessed Cameron execute Enrique, the Bowling Alley trio. She saw Cameron's arm/body tremor when posed a question. She's heard the meat and bones comments, she is leery of this robot in the meatsuit of a beautiful woman being in John's life. If she was dying , the thought of John being alone with this product of Skynet gave Sarah the creeps.
2
out of
8 found this valuable.
Do you?
|
Schmacky |
4. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 2:20 PM EDT
Hey Messenger3, hopefuly I can help you out a bit.I don’t see it as inconsistencies as much as her personal struggles. At the cemetery, Derek said to Sarah, “With my brother out here, I thought that meant something between us” (or something similar). In other words, he’s saying, “why’d you ditch me? We’re family.” And Sarah’s reply was “John matters for more and you keep too many secrets for my taste.” In other words, she’s saying, “You lie too much and I can’t trust you.” Derek has lied to Sarah about two very important things – Andy and Jesse. He flat out lied about killing Andy Goode and Sarah caught him in that lie. He also flat out lied about Jesse. In Brothers of Nablus, after meeting with the fence Sarah asked Derek “who is Jesse?” And he said one of the guys he went back with. He flat out lied about that and she found out that lie. It’s not just about Derek keeping things from Sarah, it’s that she’s directly asked him about things and he’s directly lied about it. So yeah, after all of this, she did lie and tell him they were going to meet at the desert (and I think they were going to, just after her doc’s visit) but she took him to Charley’s first. The one man that she can trust and knows would never let her down (her words). (cont) 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Schmacky |
5. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 2:20 PM EDT
(cont)I think Sarah is also worried about John losing his humanity. “People matter John, they’re all that matters.” She’s afraid John is losing touch with his humanity. So much fighting, so much preparation and he’s losing sight of what they’re fighting for. So she takes him to the one person that sees John as Johnny. Not as General Connor, not as future leader of mankind – but just Johnny, a kid. And that was Charley. John could truly be himself around him. And since Sarah believes she’ll be dying soon and believes some things she’s done will bring about her death even quicker (like running through a room full of radioactive material without protection), she ensures he will be looked after when she’s gone. Not just for his training and protection – but for his humanity. Sarah has taught a lot of things to John. But, it wasn’t just guns and warfare and strategy, she’s also taught him how to be a good man. But who will do that when she’s gone? A cyborg that could go bad and kill him? An uncle that has no issues with killing people? No. That’s not what she wants for her son. (cont) 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Schmacky |
6. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 2:21 PM EDT
(cont) With thinking John would or wouldn’t contact Derek or Cameron. I am of the belief that John and Sarah weren’t going to stay there forever. But, John had just gone through a very traumatic experience… losing Riley and what that entailed. I think that the speech he gave to Jesse, he gave a similar one to his mother. In other words, I think he talked to her (off screen of course) about how he wanted to win and find out about Riley and Jesse and etc instead of helping Riley. He feels guilty for Riley’s death. Sarah believes what John needs at this point more than anything right now is human connection. What better man to help her with that than Charley? Remember Bug Slug? Sarah was trying to interact and play with her son. Be normal, take a moment, and enjoy humanity. Also at the same time, Sarah finds a lump in her breast. She needs to go to the doctor, John needs human connection, she can’t trust the cyborg or Derek – so they make a sidetrip and visit Charley. Once they spent some time with him and she figured out about her health issues, they were going to meet back up with Derek and Cameron. And I don’t think she told them about it because they wouldn’t have waited for her. They would have gone with them to Charley’s and Sarah didn’t want that. Especially Cameron. Cameron would have definitely stayed wherever John was. So she had to be manipulative and lie to Cameron and Derek about the meetup. It’s all for John. Like every decision she makes. That’s my two cents anyway. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Messsenger3 |
7. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 2:27 PM EDT
Okay, maybe I should have left out the reference to leaving John with Charley and out of Cameron’s clutches because I wanted to discuss why Sarah tells John that “people matter; they are all that matter” yet she tells John he shouldn’t trust Derek and tells Derek that he keeps too many secrets for her taste, yet she keeps her own and gets on Derek for making mistakes, though she makes plenty of her own. In “Adam raised a Cain” we find out that John called Derek anyway and in previous episodes knew about Jesse long before Sarah did. Making mistakes is part of being human; they all make mistakes; John tells Sarah this after she tells him he shouldn’t trust Derek anymore. What I want to know is why her character became inconsistent here. In other words, “people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.” She has not acted this way throughout the whole series; why start now? Is it because she thinks she has cancer and it is making her irrational? Or is it because John is moving away from her and she knows it? John is far older than his 16 years (or is 24 as regards time travel) as evinced in previous episodes.
Do you find this valuable?
|
|
Schmacky |
8. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 2:34 PM EDT
Did you read my posts Messenger?Sarah has made plenty of mistakes. But, if you think about it, she hasn't really lied about things. She hasn't given reason to others to mistrust her. She finds something, she tells other people about it. Everyone else keeps secrets and information to themselves and that causes Sarah to mistrust them. But what has she lied about that would cause others to mistrust her? Mistakes? Yeah, she's got plenty. That's human, you're right. But with Derek was different. He didn't just make a mistake. He lied. He kept the truth from them all. First when Sarah asked who Jesse was, he lied about it. Then when he found out WHY Jesse was back, he didn't tell anybody. He hid her from everyone and that was a BIG mistake. No matter if Derek is family or not, Sarah doesn't trust him. But, you can mistrust someone and still think that people matter. It's not like those are two different schools of thought. You can not trust people AND think they matter. Even if she didn't trust him, Sarah still cared about Derek. You can tell by the look on her face when he died that she cared about him. It was unfortunate that he gave her reason to mistrust him though. I don't see any of that as Sarah being inconsistent. If anything, it's her staying consistent. Sarah doesn't trust anybody but her son. She trusts no one completely but him (and I guess Charley). And Sarah has always valued human life. So where's the inconsistency in saying she doesn't trust Derek but people still matter? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Messsenger3 |
9. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 2:35 PM EDT
Thanks Schmacky, I like your 2 cents and it has given me more to think about, which I really like!
Do you find this valuable?
|
|
Accept |
10. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 2:39 PM EDT
If you go back and watch season 1, Sarah NEVER completely warmed to Derek, I don't know if thats the best word, but its a word that you could apply to anyone. Sarah left Charlie, a man she had grown to love and trust, but her survival instincts drove Charlie away. Derek was never that close, she literally caught Derek killing Andy Goode. Derek was not a bad person, but a product of a lifetime of hell. Sarah treated him based on all those facts. If Derek had his way things regarding Cameron would have been much different.
1
out of
2 found this valuable.
Do you?
|
|
Messsenger3 |
11. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 2:47 PM EDT
"She finds something, she tells other people about it. Everyone else keeps secrets and information to themselves...She tells John in season 1 that he can't tell Derek that Kyle is his father...so she doesn't always tell what she knows either and convinces John not to as well. This story shows a great deal of what secrets do to people. You're right Derek did outright lie to her twice, the fool. What would have been so awesome had the series not been cancelled is showing how what they are doing in the present affects the future...we saw a piece or two of that with Charles Fischer and the things Jesse did on the sub but oh my it would have been absolutely mind boggling... Do you find this valuable? |
|
R.Daneel_Olivaw |
12. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 2:56 PM EDT
"She tells John in season 1 that he can't tell Derek that Kyle is his father...so she doesn't always tell what she knows either and convinces John not to as well.I think we were going to get some of that if we got a season 3. And your damn right, it boggles the mind to even contemplate. Do you find this valuable? |
ChrisCoachKKincey |
13. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 3:41 PM EDT
In T2 Sarah tells Dr. Silberman that she knows he kows she thinks everyone dies so any life she takes doesn't matter - naamely his bc she had a syringe of poinson jabbed in his neck.. She believed him.Sarah's inconsistencies are a matter of the viewpoint(s) of the writer(s) in THIS series, which - by their own admission - don't match up with previous known Terminator canon. This is because of the preference to tell the stories they have an interest in, not continuing the story from the Jim Cameron movies - which is primarilly what the show was promoted as. This is not even something begins within the show: when Jim C. decided he had enough and didn't want to do Terminator any more, and Hamilton pulled out with them, the guys at Halcon boaught the rights and have been doing what they can to milk the franchise to make money. T3, T4, and TSCC all are their products, and all of them are flawed, even more than T1 and T2 had flaws which the public enjoyed. So if you are looking for contiuity then don't even try. Sarah turned from knowing she was the leader of the only people that can save 3 billion people - all the ones in major cities around the world (you & me) - from getting fried within a few short years, to infightiing and worrying about a machine that came to save her son - and DID - when the last one that came to do that showed his own selnse of honor, sacrifice, and contribution. Uncle Bob "got" it. cont. Do you find this valuable? |
|
ChrisCoachKKincey |
14. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 3:43 PM EDT
Reasonable to think Cameron would/does too, and is a very handy asset to have around.But that asset never really got used. Why? because the entire Terminator story - which is global and EPIC in it's scale, had to be wittled down to the small screem and given to us in small bites. Rather than trying to show a few people's desparate struggle against unknown and unseen forces they KNOW are out there and seeking to ultimately destory us all BY destorying them first (which is a natural enough action/drama for me) we got our heroes posted up in stationary locations and camera shots very much like a soap opera - and similar character interactions - the majority of the time. That may sound harsh, but the plot and what we knew about the characters didn't move FORWARD for nearly most of the series. Yes, there was development, but who cares WHY someone picks their nose IF they are the ONLY ones able to prevent JDay? Fortunately, the writers hit their stride with the last 6 eps, where there is a good balance of plot movement, character development, and action. And the story actually followed T verse canon, logic and storylines. Then the finale blew all of that up! So much for "consistencies." I think inconsistent is par for the course. cont. Do you find this valuable? |
|
ChrisCoachKKincey |
15. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 3:44 PM EDT
Bottom line: don't even worry about it. Things happen - like Ellison getting a visit from a look alike Terminator hwo comes to kill him - which are never explained. They don't need to be in order to enjoy TSCC, but "real" fans know they are there. Some fans care to talk about this, others prefer it not be discussed. Some Terminator fans don't "feel" TSCC at all: 18 mil viewed the pilot, less than 4 mil at the end, while T4 has made $370 mil worldwide and is lamented as a "flawed" movie.Funny thing is, the Terminator was the best part! Same with TSCC and Cameron. But instead of her being set up a sophisticated infiltrator cyborg available for use for the Conner's designs to save the world, we got low level introversion, angst, anziety, fear, and seems like quite a bit of jealously. I've decided to look over all of that, bc that is not the SC I've known and loved for 25 years. Lena did a good good with the material they gave her, but the direction the stories went into strategically were way off bass, IMO. So you get what comes from that, not what people IN this postion would do that makes sense given the circumstances. Who would have time for a pity party? cont. Do you find this valuable? |
|
ChrisCoachKKincey |
16. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 3:45 PM EDT
And so SC doesn't like Cam, Derek - and threatens both of them to their face; and leaves Charlie, the one guy who not only likes her and her son, but proves his worth and loyaltiy by giving his life for her son;Yeah right. You spend years in the jungle training and get locked in a mental prison for what you know, and you turn away the scary killer robot come to help, the brother of the man you loved from the future, and the man that loves you now - who didn't turn his back on you even when you did that to him. Can't see it, so consistencies are gonna go with the line they (writers) chose to follow. Uncle Bob became so ingrained in the Conner's family - within a few short days - that JC cried to be without him, and Sarah shook his hand. Sure, Cameron walks around in her underwhere in front of her virgin hormonal teenaged son whose under a tremendous amount of stress AND danger, and she's admitted lying to him and manipulates him, but hey, she beats ANY alternative, and Sarah would know that. And no, Sarah would never threaten Derek's bc he lied to him. That's like a bad "gangsta" drug lord line in bad action movie. cont. Do you find this valuable? |
|
ChrisCoachKKincey |
17. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 3:46 PM EDT
Inconsistencies?How about asking Cameron what her MISSION is? Or WHO she is programmed to take orders from? How about asking for INTEL from the future from Derek and Cam? How about organizing some intel and resources sources on your own? How about using other people - hired, recruited, allied, or blackmailed - to do some of the dirtywork and heavy lifting? How about not going off on a whim (not the first time) by yourself, not telling anyone where you are going, and enter a secure secret facility with no backup and no velar vest, and no comm to anyone about what is going on? They could have popped a cap in her ass and party over; sorry folks, JDay has been moved up, no resistance in sight - EVER. Please tip the scary killer robots on your way out, they work very hard to enslave you before they take your life... Inconsistentcies? Ask yourself what some of the TSCC stories - as good (well written) as they were for the pure storytelling of it) had to do with anything that was the sci fi action thriller of Terminator, knowing what we know about THAT story? Do they match up? Some seems to think they do, but I write that off as fanboy/girl-dom. I don't. But I love Saran. She's only behind Bruce Lee on my alltime personal butt kicker's list. She broke out of Pescadero with only a paper clip and a broomstick! cont. Do you find this valuable? |
|
ChrisCoachKKincey |
18. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 3:46 PM EDT
Inconsistencies?Try this. In TSCC (staying just within that framework) one on the most compelling features in the show was the dynamic between SArah and John, and then Cam and Derek when they came along. They were at their best WHEN they were together; the "family dynamic" was very evident and very compelling, IMO whenever this was allowed to shine through. But a crust was added to pit them against one another, go off on their separate ways, and do their own thing. Uh, UNITED se stand, divided we FALL (fail). Hellow! This IS a us against the world story, even when it is not a scary killer robot chase story. And THEY know the world is a very dangerous place on TWO levels: A. The level that a Terminator can jump out of the woodwork at any time and take you head off;, and B. That is a real big bad that is REALLY big and really BAD - bad like dinosaur extinction for the human race level bad. I don't see how folk's can afford the time to be dark, introverted, emotional, petty, jealous, ungrateful and angry with one another: most situations of heavy duress pulls a team together - the Marines value this above all others, as they literally do everything they can to promote the UNIT as the highest level bonding. Orders, Command, and even country are a lower priority. Do you find this valuable? |
MetalHunter |
19. RE: Sarah's Inconsistencies
Aug 1 2009, 4:50 PM EDT
I totally agree.I'm sad that Devil Fox killed the show, but I understand that why they killed the show. JF created genial characters, like Cameron or Derek, I bless him for this, but this show team transformed, also, the John Connor story in All Bundy like story. The Question is: this is the Future Of Mankind? A complete crazy women and an idiot managed by a retarded human that is remote controlled by a complete retarded female that in his life eat only rats an lived in miserable tunnels? This is The Savior Of Mankind, hunted before to be born by Killing Machines, trained in South America by rebel forces? An idiot that ran in Mexico, outside of any armed protection, for some pussy? I hope not. The Savior Of Mankind CAN NOT BE A IDIOT! It's John Connor not John Bundy! This remind me about Idocracy movie. It's a very interesting movie, dear friends. Watch this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ Do you find this valuable? |
