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commanderchang
commanderchang
T-1000 HUD?
Nov 5 2008, 3:33 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2008, 3:33 PM EST
I was wondering do any of the T-1000 series (Liquid Metal) Terminators use a HUD, They never showed one in T2 and i was wondering is ist technologically/physically possible for those units to posses a hud interface. thoughts? Do you find this valuable?    
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willwood
willwood
1. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 5 2008, 3:37 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2008, 3:37 PM EST
Well .. I'm pretty sure the HUD is for shits and giggles.
A computer would not need a HUD.
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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs
Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs
2. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 5 2008, 3:43 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2008, 3:43 PM EST
I doubt it. They are supposed to be liquid metal organisms, not robots, per se. 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
willwood
willwood
3. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 5 2008, 3:47 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2008, 3:47 PM EST
This reminds me though, one thing I never got about them is how they see.

Technically, they have no "optic sensor" or eye or whatever. So they should be able to see 360 around them, right?
Or maybe it is some liquid organism, and they have to "form" eyes.
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commanderchang
commanderchang
4. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 5 2008, 3:51 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2008, 3:51 PM EST
Yeah i have always wondered exactly how the 1000's work, I kind of lean toward the organic metal theory. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
willwood
willwood
5. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 5 2008, 3:55 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2008, 3:55 PM EST
Well didn't the T-1000 use multiple hands when in the helicopter?
So they can make more parts than what is a "person" so you think they would make eyes all around their head. (For combat at least, they wouldn't help to blend in haha)
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daemondark
daemondark
6. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 5 2008, 4:23 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2008, 4:23 PM EST
I would doubt they have a HUD considering they are most likely made up of some form of nanotechnological components. A T1000 doesnt have dedicated parts for "eyes" Do you find this valuable?    

Neilis
7. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 5 2008, 4:35 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2008, 4:35 PM EST
"I would doubt they have a HUD considering they are most likely made up of some form of nanotechnological components. A T1000 doesnt have dedicated parts for "eyes" "
I'm going to agree, and just like willwood, I'll agree with willwood that a HUD, on ANY of the Terminators, makes no sense whatsoever.

HUD's are used as a human to computer interface. As a way for a computer to quickly show a human relevant information. In this case though, there is no seperation between the person seeing the HUD and the computer itself. Why display "Unknown Cyborg" on an imaginary "screen" for example, when that information is stored in the Terminator's memory already so he KNOWS it's an Unknown Cyborg anyways.

It's really just a dramatic effect used to help the audience get into the "mind" of the Terminator. Just like when they play an actor's private thoughts as audio so that you can "hear" what they're thinking, even though we don't literally hear ourselves think in reality.
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Chi3000
Chi3000
8. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 5 2008, 5:20 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2008, 5:20 PM EST
I always thought of them as a form of nanobots with specific bots dedicated to sensory functions like sight, hearing, and vocalizations 3  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
DeusEx
DeusEx
9. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 5 2008, 5:49 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2008, 5:49 PM EST
"I'm going to agree, and just like willwood, I'll agree with willwood that a HUD, on ANY of the Terminators, makes no sense whatsoever.

HUD's are used as a human to computer interface. As a way for a computer to quickly show a human relevant information. In this case though, there is no seperation between the person seeing the HUD and the computer itself. Why display "Unknown Cyborg" on an imaginary "screen" for example, when that information is stored in the Terminator's memory already so he KNOWS it's an Unknown Cyborg anyways.

It's really just a dramatic effect used to help the audience get into the "mind" of the Terminator. Just like when they play an actor's private thoughts as audio so that you can "hear" what they're thinking, even though we don't literally hear ourselves think in reality."
Well, as someone who has actually programmed terminators..this is not completely true.

The T-600-1000 series all have dedicated subsytems that process distilled bits of information while interacting with other sub-parts of the system. The hearing module, for example, is responsible for parsing of language and teasing out different sound threads, presenting them to the central core for higher level analysis.

The reason for all this is to allow multitasking by multiple sub-processors so the main chip does not get "overloaded".

The 1000 is fundamentally the same way, except the generic nature of its structure allows different parts to come together to form the requisite sub-processing systems.

I hope that clears it up...I have been working on these little beasties for several years now.
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notty22
notty22
10. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 5 2008, 5:55 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2008, 5:55 PM EST
"Well, as someone who has actually programmed terminators..this is not completely true.

The T-600-1000 series all have dedicated subsytems that process distilled bits of information while interacting with other sub-parts of the system. The hearing module, for example, is responsible for parsing of language and teasing out different sound threads, presenting them to the central core for higher level analysis.

The reason for all this is to allow multitasking by multiple sub-processors so the main chip does not get "overloaded".

The 1000 is fundamentally the same way, except the generic nature of its structure allows different parts to come together to form the requisite sub-processing systems.

I hope that clears it up...I have been working on these little beasties for several years now."
Also the HUD is used to record all data like a planes black box interface. You can tell why a T responds to whatever situation may happen. The only time Camerons HUD went all red is when Riley spent the night in Johns room.
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Neilis
11. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 7 2008, 10:59 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2008, 10:59 AM EST
"Well, as someone who has actually programmed terminators..this is not completely true.

The T-600-1000 series all have dedicated subsytems that process distilled bits of information while interacting with other sub-parts of the system. The hearing module, for example, is responsible for parsing of language and teasing out different sound threads, presenting them to the central core for higher level analysis.

The reason for all this is to allow multitasking by multiple sub-processors so the main chip does not get "overloaded".

The 1000 is fundamentally the same way, except the generic nature of its structure allows different parts to come together to form the requisite sub-processing systems.

I hope that clears it up...I have been working on these little beasties for several years now."
I'm a computer programmer for a living. All the things you mentioned can be (and are) accomplished through things like object oriented programming. Data is passed from various modules through functioned calls and via memory locations and CPU registers. At no point does it become efficient for that information to be rendered into a visual state that must be taken BACK into the CPU (presumably using some form of OCR). It's simply inefficient.
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Neilis
12. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 7 2008, 11:11 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2008, 11:11 AM EST
"Also the HUD is used to record all data like a planes black box interface. You can tell why a T responds to whatever situation may happen. The only time Camerons HUD went all red is when Riley spent the night in Johns room."
That would only make sense in the context of a human interpreting the data though. Computers have no problem interpreting data stored in odd formats. That's because computers operate in a methodical manner and so efficiency is key.

Humans on the other hand value formatting because we perceive information differently. For instance, you had to read, as quickly as possible, a document. Would you prefer it spaced out into paragraphs, with indentations, and with decent margins, OR, would you prefer it printed edge to edge in a tiny font with no line breaks, spacing between paragraphs, or anything.

Most people would prefer the first. If it's all jumbled together people have trouble making sense out of it because we tend to take things in as "chunks" and digest them. HOWEVER, a computer would "prefer" the second because it's faster to read in in a completely sequential manner. In the same way, if you're storing a Terminator's "memory", showing it as a HUD only helps a human. Computers could store it and access it more efficiently. Does it make sense that Skynet would design machines with human needs in mind? Of course not. It's just a dramatic effect for screen :).
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Neilis
13. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 7 2008, 11:15 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2008, 11:15 AM EST
BTW, just as an example of what I'm talking about here, if you're in Firefox, with this page up, click on View, then on Page Source. If you're in IE7, click on Page, then on View Source.

Notice the nice HTML code? Doesn't look too appealing does it? THAT however is how your computer perceives and handles the web page you're viewing. That's how it works with the information most efficiently. To a human however, it's hard to read, so you can presented with the lovely formatted version that we normally use ;).
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DeusEx
DeusEx
14. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 7 2008, 11:55 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2008, 11:55 AM EST
"I'm a computer programmer for a living. All the things you mentioned can be (and are) accomplished through things like object oriented programming. Data is passed from various modules through functioned calls and via memory locations and CPU registers. At no point does it become efficient for that information to be rendered into a visual state that must be taken BACK into the CPU (presumably using some form of OCR). It's simply inefficient."
Well I am too, and perhaps I should give some background on the terminators construction.

Original develpment was done in factories seperated by long distances without any real ability to collaborate, excpet only vaguely, for long periods of time. Exact protocols neccesary for the subsytems to communicate were not worked out, so machines had to rely on a "lowest common denominator", the human lanmguage interface.

In other words, it would be as if you were doing object oriented programming with a team, but none of the team members were allowed to actually describe the input/output their various objects actually demanded from each other (the arguments).

I did .NET programming for several years before switiching to terminator development. Its a different world, and while we gain alot in terms of hardware, there is some loss of efficiency due to the construction circumstances. I can assure you it still is far superior as far as the end product is concerned, but you are right, if circumstances had permitted, we would have been able to construct more efficiently without the human language interface.
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Neilis
15. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 7 2008, 12:16 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2008, 12:16 PM EST
"Well I am too, and perhaps I should give some background on the terminators construction.

Original develpment was done in factories seperated by long distances without any real ability to collaborate, excpet only vaguely, for long periods of time. Exact protocols neccesary for the subsytems to communicate were not worked out, so machines had to rely on a "lowest common denominator", the human lanmguage interface.

In other words, it would be as if you were doing object oriented programming with a team, but none of the team members were allowed to actually describe the input/output their various objects actually demanded from each other (the arguments).

I did .NET programming for several years before switiching to terminator development. Its a different world, and while we gain alot in terms of hardware, there is some loss of efficiency due to the construction circumstances. I can assure you it still is far superior as far as the end product is concerned, but you are right, if circumstances had permitted, we would have been able to construct more efficiently without the human language interface."
Ok, seriously, the role play is awesome and all that, but we're in the real world, and we're discussing the real world technical merits of a fictional device.

If if you were developing with "lowest common denominator" in mind, formatting in such a way would still not make sense, because the lowest common demonitor for a human and a machine are different. Realizing and interpreting data in a human fashion is a VERY complex operation. It's orders of magnitude more complex than, say, just keeping the information stored in an XML file (which is easily interpreted by computers but also is considered close enough to english that humans can understand it too, with some effort).
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LaLongeCarabine
LaLongeCarabine
16. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 7 2008, 1:46 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2008, 1:46 PM EST
"I'm a computer programmer for a living. All the things you mentioned can be (and are) accomplished through things like object oriented programming. Data is passed from various modules through functioned calls and via memory locations and CPU registers. At no point does it become efficient for that information to be rendered into a visual state that must be taken BACK into the CPU (presumably using some form of OCR). It's simply inefficient."
Ah but you do put that data in an array, a map if you will.
The HUD target reticule is an must, any walking robot would need to know where 'up' was so it
could hold a pistol and target our buddy John over there for example.
Overlapping a data point or reticule over the visual data array is used in some modern weapons systems.

The real reason is it just looks cool and gives us the viewer a "terminator vision" mode be inside their heads for a bit.
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commanderchang
commanderchang
17. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 7 2008, 1:51 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2008, 1:51 PM EST
Ok heres a question, what type of processing power do the terms CPU have, I remeber hearing the writers say the T888 has 3 processors, LOL probaly way more advanced than any intel QX series extreme edition processors, I wonder can they over clock thier CPU's? LOL, "My CPU is a neural net proceesor, a learning computer" - Uncle Bob terminator T2 Do you find this valuable?    

Neilis
18. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 7 2008, 2:50 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2008, 2:50 PM EST
"Overlapping a data point or reticule over the visual data array is used in some modern weapons systems.

The real reason is it just looks cool and gives us the viewer a "terminator vision" mode be inside their heads for a bit."
That overlapping data though is presented for the benefit of a human user. That's my point. HUD displays are the digital equivalent of duct tape to interface the human and the machine. It's beneficial in such cases for example, to be able to see the number of rounds remaining in the weapon. That still requires that you look at the number, think about it for a fraction of a second, and then realize the remaining round count. Would it not be more useful to simply know the remaining round count? Not as in counting and keeping track of it. I mean to, without error and with the same precision of the display, always know how many rounds are left.

That's the type of integration that would be most useful when the subject IS the machine rather than simply controlling the machine. A HUD makes no sense from the perspective of a Terminator because attaining information from "screen" is inefficient compared to simply being aware.

Consider a more practical example: you can hook yourself to a whole encyclopedia. You have two choices for interface: (A) A virtual page can be overlaid over your existing vision. You can flip the page to another by thought. You can think words into a search dialog if you like to bring up pages to read through. It's all right there for access like that, but it takes time to look through and gets in the way of your sight. OR, (B) you can simply know, by heart, and without error, the entire encyclopedia. A HUD on a Terminator is like a human choosing (A).

I agree that the real reason is for the benefit of the viewer and that it looks cool. I'm just saying in a working model that it's impracticle :).
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Neilis
19. RE: T-1000 HUD?
Nov 7 2008, 2:54 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2008, 2:54 PM EST
"Ok heres a question, what type of processing power do the terms CPU have, I remeber hearing the writers say the T888 has 3 processors, LOL probaly way more advanced than any intel QX series extreme edition processors, I wonder can they over clock thier CPU's? LOL, "My CPU is a neural net proceesor, a learning computer" - Uncle Bob terminator T2"
Actually all those Intel chips you reference have 4 cores, which are essentially 4 seperate processors :). Most dedicated video cards also have a fairly powerful (albeit special purpose) processor as well.

As to actual speeds that the Terminator is capable of computationally, I'm not sure. I don't know that I've ever heard a measure (such as Teraflops for example) quoted on screen. Either way it could be misleading as I'd bet if they guessed at a number back in '84 when Terminator 1 came out, we've quite likely already surpassed it in the real world ;).
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